You Are What Your Grandparents Ate
Epigenetic change is now recognized as the cumulative effect of our life experiences in controlling gene expression. What is less well known is that this epigenetic influence on our gene expression can extend back to our parents’ and even our grandparents’ life experiences. Let’s dive into this fascinating topic with todays guest expert.

Judith Finlayson is a best-selling author who has written books on a variety of subjects, from personal well-being and women’s history to food and nutrition. Her most recent book ‘You Are What Your Grandparents Ate’ is a revealing take on transgenerational epigenetics and has been translated into German, French, Spanish, Slovenian and Japanese. 

Key points:

-Current understanding – genomic information is transferred but epigenetic information is wiped clean each generation-but not quite so simple. 

-For example, studies have shown that both the children and grandchildren of women who survived the Dutch famine of 1944-45 were found to have increased glucose intolerance in adulthood.

-Other researchers have found that the descendants of Holocaust survivors have lower levels of the hormone cortisol, which helps your body bounce back after trauma.

-Mechanisms for transgenerational epigenetics

-David Barker- hypothesis

-dietary and lifestyle choices she prioritizes to support optimal genetic expression. 

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TRANSCRIPT:

Robert Lufkin 0:00
Welcome back to the health longevity secret show with Dr. Robert Lufkin. epigenetic change is now recognized as the cumulative effect of our life experiences in controlling gene expression. What is less well known is that this epigenetic influence on our gene expression can expand extend back to our parents, and even our grandparents life experiences. Let’s dive into this fascinating topic with today’s guest expert. Judith Finlayson is a best selling author who’s written books on a variety of subjects from personal well being and women’s history to food and nutrition. Her most recent book entitled you are what your grandparents ate, is a revealing take on transgenerational epigenetics, and it has been translated into German, French, Spanish, Slovenian and Japanese. Before we begin, I would like to mention that this show is separate from my teaching and research roles at the Medical School with which I am currently affiliated. It is, however, part of my continuing effort to bring quality evidence based information about health and longevity to the general public. Now, please enjoy this interview with Judith Finlayson.

Judith Finley said, welcome to our show.

Judith Finlayson 1:24
Thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to speaking with you.

Robert Lufkin 1:28
Yes, I’m a I’m a big fan of your book. You are what your grandparents ate, what you need to know about nutrition, experience, epigenetic epigenetics and the origins of chronic disease. I’m so excited to talk to you about this. And I understand what you’ve learned about writing this book. But before we do that, perhaps we could take a moment and just tell us how you got to be interested in this fascinating area?

Judith Finlayson 2:01
Well, I’ve always been intrigued, well, not always. But for the past 20 years or so I’ve been very interested in nutrition and health. And so somebody gave me a number of years ago, a copy of a little book called nutrition in the womb. And it was a self published book written by Dr. David Barker. I’m British epidemiologist. And I know that this was kind of the framework that the whole developmental origins of Allison disease sprung from. But at the time, I didn’t I read it, though, and I was really knocked out by it. Because basically, what he was saying is that our health, our much of our health, and much chronic illness originates from what happened to us while we were still in the womb. And this was really, I had never known that. I mean, you know that, you know, pregnant women should eat well and take care of themselves, but I didn’t realize a lot of the mechanics of it. So I started asking around, you know, people like my doctor, or whenever I’d be at a party, and you know, there’d be a lot of doctors or medical people, and I would say to them, Well, you know, what do you think about the developmental origins of health and disease, and Dr. David Barker, and they’d never heard of them. So I thought, Holy smokes, this is really, you know, a very important thing, and nobody knows about it. So anyway, you are what your grandparents say, is the end result of a couple of years of really researching that and going into it and talking in great depth to a lot of the people that he worked with. Some of him initially thought he was nuts. But, you know, when they started to work with data, I found out that he was actually on the right track.

Robert Lufkin 4:11
So, I have to admit, before I read the book, I was not aware of, of Dr. David Barker, Who was he?

Judith Finlayson 4:21
Well, David Barker was a British epidemiologist. And he died, I think in 2013. But he was in the 70s engaged in a mammoth epidemiological product project called the Atlas of mortality. And as you know, epidemiologist study patterns of disease in groups, large groups of people, and what he was seeing was really going against the grain of conventional wisdom. Because in those days, I mean, now that we know a lot about the social origins of health and disease, it’s not quite as radical an idea. But in those days, they really thought that heart disease was in disease of affluence was linked, you know, it was a male disease. It was linked with eating too much meat. His data was showing that rates of heart disease were actually much higher in the poorer parts of Britain. And this really bothered him. He then when he started aligning information, could see that in these areas where maternal mortality, and high rates of infant mortality could also be linked with high rates of heart disease and stroke 70 years later, mortality from heart disease and stroke. So he began to suspect that this was really about something that was going on during pregnancy. But he had no data to to, to substantiate that he needed detailed birth records of what happened during pregnancy. And the first year birth. He found these in something called the hook Fisher Ledger’s, which were around the turn of the 20th century, the British health was very, very poor. And the government looked into studying and funded a remarkable woman named Margaret Burnside, who’s one of the most interesting characters in this whole study, who is the Chief Inspector of health visitors and midwives, and rode her bicycle around around England. But she documented she and her workers created records that documented women’s pregnancies, they visited the homes of people out in the country and wherever. And what happened during the first year of birth, our life rather, and Dr. Barker was able to use that data to develop what was called at that point, the Barker hypothesis, which was published in The Lancet 1986. And he could link babies born with low birth weight, with significantly higher rates of heart disease as adults. And that was the beginning of the science that we now know is the developmental origins of health and disease. And there are 1000s and 1000s of studies now that really show how what happens in the womb, influences the development of chronic illness later in life.

Robert Lufkin 8:13
It’s fascinating, that he, as an epidemiologist, made have made an observation in his data, and the field of epigenetics. And all was was still very early if at all along and there wasn’t really an explanation for it yet, and and only later on was this applied as a possible biological and medical explanation for it. That’s, that’s fascinating.

Judith Finlayson 8:43
That’s absolutely correct. The first the first studies began to look at how things like poor nutrition affect Oregon development. So when the fetus is developing, the placenta is controlling the the delivery of nutrients and oxygen to the fetus. If there isn’t enough nutrition, the placenta will adjust in some way. But you know, there is a point where it can’t if there isn’t enough, there’s nothing more it can do. And so the fetus will begin there’s a kind of hierarchy of development, it will begin trading off organ development, beginning with things like say the kidneys, which it doesn’t need, because of the mother’s body does that work for it? So poor nutrition and and chronic stress is also another one of these big impacts really begins by affecting organ development before you get into the science of epigenetics. The science of epigenetics As I think you probably know, really began to come to the fore in all of this in the late 1990s, with the agouti mouse study. And that really showed that by improving the nutrition of these poor little agouti mice who had been bred to be beautiful, but in being beautiful, they had been trans generationally passing along these, these, these genes that didn’t work as well as they ought to have. By by supplementing with certain B vitamins, and a couple of other things, they were able to improve the health, not only of the first and second generations, but without further supplementation of subsequent offspring in the following generations. So that was really a key study that showed how you could improve health by improve long term health by improving nutrition.

Robert Lufkin 11:14
So for our, for our listener, or for our audience, the genetics is, is at first pass the information we receive from our parents and our ancestors. And epigenetics is the information that we receive from our life experiences. But it’s actually more nuanced than that, isn’t it? It’s not that exactly cut off there.

Judith Finlayson 11:42
It’s true. So the epigenetics is a bit more complicated to explain. But let’s start with reproductive cells. So you have the sperm and the egg. It’s easier to see in the eight development, because we tend to forget, but a female is born with all of her aches. So her eggs are developing Well, she is still in her mother’s room. Now remember, Dr. Barker, talking about how the origins of chronic illness often really were seated in the womb. When you think about these eggs forming, it’s very easy to see that the air her mother brace, the food she eats, the stress she experiences is going to affect the quality of those eggs. And it does that by leaving the easy way remembers biological memories. So these are really epigenetic modifications. But it’s easier, I think, to remember it as a biological memory. So you know, as Ed said, if you get a if you get a whack, you get a bruise. It’s the same kind of thing, but it’s affecting the expression of your genes, because it’s leaving these biological memories on them. With males, it’s a little trickier to see, but they too, and there is now an emerging subset of the developmental origins of health and disease, called the paternal origins of health and disease where they are really beginning to look at the impact of males on reproductive development, which is really more than we would have thought. So we can’t blame everything on mother anymore. father did have some input to this. With boys, these epigenetic memories biological memories, are the key developmental period is around the time that sperm cells are forming. So around the time of puberty, and when Dr. Barker was doing his original work about the same time there was a Swedish epidemiologist named Lars Bergen, who was looking at his little town in Sweden, where his family lived for hundreds of years. And for some reason, decided to study the impact of feast or famine are an agricultural community. So some years they had a lot to eat. Other years they had very little, and he found that when boys ate too much around the time of puberty, their grandsons were more likely to die significantly younger than the control group who ate normally. He tried to get that work published and even though the peer review reviewed journals agreed that his statistics were very sound, they just said, This is too wonky. We can’t, we can’t publish this. So he kind of hung around and and but he knew he was right. He was a bit like Dr. Barker eventually paired up with a British

geneticists named Marcus Penry who was studying some diseases, and beginning to think that there was more than just the transmission of genes. There were something because they were getting the same disease, or different diseases from the same genes, but depending on whether they had been transmitted through the male or the female line. Um, so when the two of them teamed up, because then then they were able to begin publishing that portion of the work, which was looking at things like the impact of cigarette smoking was another one, if boys started, young boys started to smoke around the time of puberty, their sons and grandsons were more likely to be obese. And so that that was kind of where that wing of everything got going. But so you have these two reproductive cells, then, that are being influenced by the experiences of the mother and father, who provided them. And then they are influenced by the experiences of the mother when she is pregnant. And all of that is sets the stage for the kind of epigenetic modifications to, to to gene expression. So what what what I like to say is that you we have good news, I have good news and bad news. And you know, the bad news is, to some extent, your your health is determined before you were born. But the good news, and this is why it’s important to really get these messages out is that once you start making your own choices, regarding lifestyle modifications, like exercising, eating a healthy diet, you can change the expression of genes that may not be functioning optimally to improve how they function. And there are now lots of studies are showing that.

Robert Lufkin 17:51
Yes, yeah. The power of lifestyle to affect epigenetic change is really remarkable. And it’s something that we all hopefully take advantage of. You mentioned some of the things that affected the, the effect, the fetus or the or the gametes, actually, things like the the parent or grandparent smoking and diet choices, what other types of things have they have you found that will affect these the epigenetics of later generations?

Judith Finlayson 18:31
Well, things like obesity there. Women who are obese, obese tend to have inflamed placentas, and that is transmitted to the fetus therefore, predisposing the baby to to some, you know, diseases, toxins, of course, we have a horrible DEA experience of it, you know, a drug that was given to women and and their daughters developed, you know, there’s rare type of cancer. And now I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re beginning to see this through the generations. It’s also affecting the the second generation of spring, and they believe that it’s also influencing affecting some male offspring this is happening is the last time I looked at it was developing research, but it was coming on to the horizon. So, you know, toxic exposures. lifestyle modification, certainly, you know, getting adequate amount of exercise is very important to establishing positive epigenetic patterns. It’s just, you know, basically it’s, it’s complex science, but it’s really the kind of common sense. It’s your grandfather, it’s your grandmother’s, our great grandmother’s, you know, message, healthy food, lots of exercise. Mindfulness is interesting to they’re now seeing, they’re now being able to show that things like, I don’t know if it if they’ve, I don’t, I haven’t seen any studies have actually looked at its effect on the fetus. But it has certainly looked at the effect on your own gene expression. So things like yoga, mindfulness, meta modification, do improve gene expression in ways that improve your health.

Robert Lufkin 20:49
Now, that’s, that’s fascinating. I can I can get my head around what the way you’ve explained it the that the through the, the egg cells and the sperm cells is sort of going back to generations. And I know in the literature, there’s some evidence for at least in animal models, like C. elegans, and all that these epigenetic changes possibly go back even further. Are there any any mechanisms for that, that? How do you think about about that effect?

Judith Finlayson 21:26
Well, I I suspect that that’s probably true, as you say, most of the science really does only look at two generations, but they leave the door open for the fact that it’s much longer. I can’t remember his name, but was it was it landmark, they the the fellow will talk to

Robert Lufkin 21:48
the Russian Lamar, you wrote your

Judith Finlayson 21:51
apps, your apps and the giraffe’s neck. And, and, and, you know, he, his theory was that the giraffe had developed this long neck because it had to reach up to, to, to eat the leaves. And then eventually, this long neck was, you know, passed along to subsequent generations. And everybody thought he was crazy. But they’re now saying, maybe not, you know. So, you know, their way Wait, there’s so much that we don’t know. And, and, you know, we just tried to stick to what we do know, in terms of evidence based medicine, but and, and, and since there is so much silliness out there, I think the only thing that you can do is try to control it. And, and, and, and look at it in terms of evidence based medicine, but you know, there’s possibly a lot that we’re not really looking at as well or missing. So, you know, you just have to keep it out there. And maybe someday.

Robert Lufkin 23:01
Yes, absolutely. I think I misspoke. I don’t believe Lamarck is Russian, but we’ll find out in the show notes, we’ll have a reference for that. So that all of these all of these factors, these exposures, these behaviors, these lifestyle changes can affect our children or our grandchildren. And what sort of a ways what sort of ways are these effects manifested? What sort of chronic diseases what is the price we pay two generations later for, for behavior by our parents and grandparents?

Judith Finlayson 23:38
Well, they’re mostly mostly metabolic, although they are showing up in things like cancer and so on, as well. Um, one of the stories that I really like to talk about is the 100 year effect, because I think we’re really seeing now in, in the very high incidences of chronic disease, and epidemiologists are now beginning to, we’re now beginning to see the studies that are suggesting that the current generation of young people will be the first not to live longer than their parents. And you can really put that into the perspective of the westernized standard American diet. And it really came to the fore in the 1950s or started to come to the fore in the 1950s. So you have three generations of Americans or people who live a westernized diet, or eat a westernized diet who are suffering from what has been described as high calorie malnutrition, because probably Processed foods don’t have enough nutrients. And they also have I mean, the other side of that coin is they also have a lot of additives that are probably not good for you as well. But you can just stick to the absence of nutrients and particularly fiber when talking about the microbiome on the later. But what you have say, as somebody who came of age in the 50s ate a lot of processed food, um, she then gets pregnant, her eggs are not going to be as robust as they ought to be from eating a malnourished Jaya, on through no three generations. So you can really look at the impact of that in the high rates of chronic illnesses like type two diabetes, like obesity. You know, there are so many people who say they can’t lose weight. And I believe a lot of them, there are people who say, you know, they, they look at a carb and they gain weight. But you know, what, why is that the case? And if you look back, it’s because their metabolisms have been programmed for it, because of these generations of processed foods. And so that’s kind of the 100 year effect, because if you go back to the eggs, the egg that made you was formed in your mother’s womb, or in your grandmother’s room. So you have this 100 100 year effect of poor nutrition, have sedentary lifestyles, and we’re really seeing it in high rates of metabolic illnesses, and now in shortened lifespans for younger generations of people.

Robert Lufkin 27:08
Yes, and as we’ve talked about before, on the show, we’re now understanding that these metabolic abnormalities at a foundational level manifest as a variety of different chronic diseases that we used to think were completely unrelated. But now we know that have this metabolic underpinning things like heart disease, stroke, dementia, cancer, diabetes, obesity, fatty liver disease, it’s it’s it’s really a very complicated effect with many, many inputs. But this epigenetic phenomenon, and the effect of processed foods on our diets can’t be underestimated. It’s it’s it Wow.

Judith Finlayson 28:02
Well, you know, like, Can we talk a little bit about the micro bile? Yes, yes, talk about processed foods, which are notoriously, you know, devoid of fiber, they really affect the microbiome. And the microbiome is certainly I think, a new frontier in health. And it’s kind of the other end of the developmental origins of health and disease. But processed foods are notoriously empty of nutrients and fiber that encourage the development of a healthy gut microbiome, the microbiome we know I spend a lot of time researching that at the moment. And I don’t I it’s hard to say that it isn’t linked with every every possible disease you can imagine. I can’t think of there isn’t a study today there will be one tomorrow. But it you know, it really affects your your mental health. Because 90% of the serotonin and and those other feel good hormones are produced in your gut. Most of your immune system is located in your gut, and you know, immune auto immune diseases are another I mean, we talk about the the raft of the epidemic of metabolic diseases, but autoimmune diseases, there are real comers in that in that sense, as well. We know that a processed food diet. Tim Spector has a scientist who works in this area, put his or his son wanted to do this, he wanted to he thought he thought he died and gone to heaven could eat processed food for 10 days. So you Father said, okay, but I, you know, I’m going to test you. So he was busy testing his son’s stool every day. And it was amazing how quickly the robustness of his son’s microbiome declined. After I, after 10 days, more than 50% of the diversity of this species had been lost. And after, I think five or six days, even the kid was saying, I’m not sure I want to finish this, I feel so terrible. But you know, we know that processed food is is is not good for you. And the microbiome and its effect on the microbiome is certainly one of the ways that we can see that in a very concrete way.

Robert Lufkin 30:55
Yeah, just for our audience. To be clear by by microbiome, we’re focusing on the gut microbiome. And there we now people are looking at the sinus microbiome and Dale Bredesen is looking at the brain microbiome. But the gut microbiome is by far the largest number of microbes, and it’s one of the most thoroughly studied, perhaps due to if you could talk a little bit about the microbiome just to bring the gut microbiome just to bring our listeners up to speed. We hear a lot of weep. You talked about fiber, we hear macrobiotics prebiotics, probiotics, what is necessary for my gut microbiome health?

Judith Finlayson 31:41
Well, I’m your mind. Nobody, we haven’t actually defined the perfectly healthy microbiome. And it probably differs from person to person. Because we are finding different I mean, in Africa, they have huge numbers of H. pylori, and bacteria. And if we had the same numbers in ours, we’d all be very sick. So you know, it just, it’s, it’s a, I’m not quite sure what the right word is. But it’s kind of a universal thing. That, you know, depends on all kinds of other things, too. But what we do know is that that diversity is important. The the larger number we have good back, maybe we should start by saying we have good bacteria and bad bacteria in our guts. And, and the important thing is to have the good guys in charge. So you want more good guys, then bad guys. And you know that you can encourage the growth of good guys, by eating nutritious foods, mostly plant foods. The studies have shown that the healthiest by microbiome gut microbiomes are linked with the high consumption of plant foods. Things like omega three fatty acids, which we tend to get from fish, we can get them from plants and this is something that interests me, because the the the the translation of from of those fats from plants into EPA or dp d d, h a, or EPA in your gut is notoriously poor. But I my gut instinct is that, um, I think we’re going to find that if people have healthy bio healthy micro gut microbiomes To start with, that, it will be better. But for the moment, the way to really get your, your your beneficial omega threes is through, mostly through oily fish. And those do not directly nourish them, the bacteria thrive by eating the components of plant foods. There are a number of them, we probably don’t fully understand all of the ones that are that are good for your beneficial bacteria. But the two we really know about are fiber and poly plant polyphenols. And they really do these they love it and they reproduce and they create wonderful metabolites like short chain fatty acid, which do great things in your body like fight inflammation, help to keep your immune system strong. The the healthy fats on the other hand, do not necessarily directly feed the back But they provide it appears that they provide a friendly environment, which helps them to flourish. So it’s basically a healthy diet, exercising, getting enough exercise, not having a sedentary lifestyle also helps to keep your microbiome healthy. So you know, just that that’s an important thing and not eating processed foods. They don’t like processed foods. So healthy, happy little bacteria that keep you feeling well.

Robert Lufkin 35:37
Yes. And we just had one of our experts was talking about the effect of artificial sweeteners on the gut microbiome, how people switch from their favorite, their favorite sugar, soda, Coke or Pepsi to Diet Coke or Pepsi, thinking that, you know, they’re they’re dodging a bullet that actually they, the artificial sweeteners can wreak havoc on the gut microbiome. Also there. So it’s a lot of challenges

Judith Finlayson 36:11
in terms of developing, you know, with the healthy bio microbiome, we we know that one of the big discussions now is whether the microbiome is seated while you’re still in the womb or not. And that that’s a very hot topic. The idea originally they said absolutely not, they’re now saying, probably a little bit. But you know, we don’t know how much if at all, but but but the way to, you know, if you have a vaginal birth, that is a big help toward, toward building a healthy biome, and they’re now looking at trying to support more microbiome, you know, universal microbiome, robustness in babies that are born by C section. But also breastfeeding is another big help off to a healthy microbiome start because it contains prebiotics that support the growth of beneficial bacteria. And you asked about prebiotics, probiotics, synbiotics, and they’re no or even post by. And those are those are the various healthy bacteria things that prebiotics are the components in food that nourish the beneficial bacteria in your gut, probiotics are healthy bacteria that you can either find in fermented foods or take as a supplement synbiotics are taking, you know, eating say something like I take a spoonful of flaxseed every morning at breakfast. So that’s a very good prebiotic. But I also take a probiotic containing bifidobacteria because I have a wonky gene variation and don’t produce enough of bifidobacteria myself. So I give it a little boost with this synbiotic in the morning. And then you have post biotics, which are the new kid on the block. And they’re really looking at those are the metabolites that the beneficial bacteria produce light short chain fatty acids, but they’re now trying to get them to you and supplements.

Robert Lufkin 38:51
Yeah, that’s, that’s interesting, all the different combinations, I guess no discussion of the gut microbiome and all the probiotics prebiotics in biotics. Post biotics would be complete with it, at least at least without at least mentioning antibiotics. And we need to be very judicious about our use of antibiotics because even a short course of antibiotics for bronchitis can dramatically alter our gut microbiome and in fact, the microbiome of all our bodies so so we all need to look very carefully at that. It’s so funny when I when I went to medical school so many years ago, microbes and germs germs were felt to be something that were bad, universally bad and we had to get rid of them. You know, we dealt with sterility in the operating room and all these things now and I thinking like so many things in medicine has transformed dramatically so that like you say, dude, if we realize there are there are good microbes and bad microbes in It’s not about it’s not all or nothing. It’s about managing the populations and creating a positive environment. for that. Maybe in our in our last few moments, if you wouldn’t mind, we always like to ask our expert guests, given the given your expertise, the knowledge that you know about epigenetics and risk factors and lifestyle and the effects on chronic disease. I wonder what, what choices you make in your personal lifestyle? As far as diet exercise, and that sort of thing. You’ve mentioned a few things, but could you elaborate?

Judith Finlayson 40:44
Well, I’m, I like to think I’ve had a healthy lifestyle for most of my adult life. I started exercising seriously, when I was in my early 30s. And have maintained that with regular you know, gym sessions, train straight training, and I do Pilates a once or twice a week, an hour long session. And I find that that I, I don’t know how I function without that. I also really, I’m a bit of a zealot about a healthy nutritious diet, and I probably would go hungry rather than eat processed food. So because I know so much about it, and I know how awful it is, and I and I, I, I really, I also know that you know, my I have enough fat on my body or enough nutrients in my body that if I missed a meal, I wouldn’t die. But in the morning, I start my morning off usually with a glass of fresh fruit juice, a big spoonful of sprouted ground flax seeds to nourish by friendly bacteria. And I put a spoonful of high EPA omega three fatty acids in my fruit juice. And that’s how I start my day. And then a whole grain cereal, you know, either hot oatmeal or an artisanal granola that I buy, that’s really good. And then for lunch, I often have homemade soup that I make with good bone broth real bone broth, because bone broth is full of nutrients and it’s also very good for your gut. And, or, you know, salad or postings on on Google gluten free whole grain toast because I discovered one of the other things I discovered in my journey is that I am gluten intolerant. And then I eat a normal dinner but you know, it’s normal in the sense that it’s I do eat me. But I buy from a butcher it’s all pasture raised, you know sustainably, same with my fish I buy from a fishmonger, it’s all well caught or sustainably raised. And lots of fruits and vegetables and I drink the occasional glass of wine, which I really enjoy. And I don’t eat a lot of dessert. I was very fortunate in that I married a man who many years ago who does not have a sweet tooth, so I’m not often tempted. So and then. Yeah, oh, and I and I did a mindfulness. I did a mindfulness medic meditation course, a couple of years ago and I tried to work that into my life, although I have that I have to work on a bit. I have trouble just stopping and trying to tell myself to focus on the moment.

Robert Lufkin 44:17
Do you use any particular apps for your mindfulness to help you with that and and would you recommend the course to our audience?

Judith Finlayson 44:27
I would recommend my mind was done by I live in Toronto and by a psychologist who teaches that but you know, find a person who is well qualified to teach it and and I do think it really because it’s a hard I never thought I would be able to do it because I’m someone who’s always thinking and and you know, I and I’ve tried, you know, and the idea of sitting around and you know, kind of owning it just never never appealed to me but During the course, I went with a friend who wanted to do it. So she said she was gonna do and I said, You know, I really should do that too. So I’ll go with you. And it was I, if I remember correctly, an eight week course. And it trained me it trained you to two. And I don’t quite know how to explain it, but it just being there and in an environment. There were about eight people in the course. And it really helped me to learn to train my mind to focus. And then after it was over, I purchased, I cannot Can I say the calm app, and I so I have that when I travel. And if I’m feeling particularly stressed, I will listen to it before I go to sleep. And I just I do find it very helpful. And I know that it’s also improving my gene expression of certain genes. So yeah, it’s a fact.

Robert Lufkin 46:10
Yeah, many of our experts also use mindfulness meditation, or Vipassana meditation. Using the calm app is a great app. I recommend it also also headspace are waking up by Sam Harris. The 10% happier, there’s a number of them out there, some of them are free, also. But yeah, that’s that’s a very, very powerful tool. Also, many of our experts look at including part of their lifestyle. Intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, do you do any of that?

Judith Finlayson 46:52
No, I don’t. And not, not because I’m opposed to it. But you know, I just I find that I, I can maintain my weight and feel good and be healthy, just doing what I’m doing. So I tend not to look at new things unless I feel there’s something that I need to fix. And so far, I’m I’m okay on that. But I wouldn’t rule it out for future. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it does. It does seem it does seem to work. And I’ve read some studies on it. And it does, it affects certain genes and whatever. So yeah,

Robert Lufkin 47:32
that’s the wonderful thing, that we’re all different. And whatever, we all choose different paths in our lifestyle, that whatever works for us, is, is what we do. And there there are many, many different ways to achieve a healthy lifestyle that will support health and long longevity. So how can I how can our audience reach you, Judith? What’s the best way for them to find out more about what you’re doing and follow? Follow your work?

Judith Finlayson 48:05
Well, I have a website, Judah finlayson.com. And so you can kind of see me there. I’m on Instagram, I post a lot on Instagram, what you know, mostly, it’s kind of what I’m eating every day with a little message about you know why it’s good for you. And, you know, that’s about it.

Robert Lufkin 48:33
Great, well, well, we’ll be following you. And I really recommend this book to our audience if you want to understand transgenerational epigenetics and the effect that we can all have on our children and grandchildren. Thank you so much to that for for being on the show today.

Judith Finlayson 48:55
Oh, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure speaking with you. I

Robert Lufkin 48:58
look forward to talking with you again soon.

Judith Finlayson 49:01
Okay, bye for now.

Unknown Speaker 49:04
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