Keto Flexing to Metabolic Health

Today we discuss how a process called Keto-flexing can deliver metabolic health. 

Our guest is Ben Azadi, FDN-P who is on a mission to help 1 billion people live a healthier lifestyle. Ben is the author of several best-selling books- The Perfect Health Booklet, The Intermittent Fasting Cheat Sheet, The Power of Sleep, and most recently Keto Flex. 

Ben is the founder of Keto Kamp. He is the go-to source for intermittent fasting and the ketogenic diet. He is known as ‘The Health Detective’ because he investigates dysfunction, and educates, not medicates, to bring the body back to normal function.

TAKE HOME POINTS:

Keto Flexing is a novel approach to ketogenic nutrition which involves ketosis, fasting, and flexible choices to optimize the health value of this strategy.

Ketosis is a normal state in our bodies that we do less and less of because of the American diet, which forces us into the glucose side. So returning to ketosis is not a fad or a particular diet, but it’s a way of living. It has health advantages compared to when we burn glucose.

For ketogenic diet we add fats and oils. It is best to avoid seed/vegetable oils. They are [3 C’s] canola oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, [3 S’s] soybean oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil, and two others rice bran oil and grapeseed oil. They’re very unstable and highly inflammatory. We prefer stable fats, saturated fats, monounsaturated fats such as coconut oil, real olive oil, avocado oil, butter, ghee, duck fat, and lard. 

 

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TRANSCRIPT:

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  0:00  

 

 

 

Welcome back to the health longevity secrets show and I’m your host, Dr. Robert Lufkin. Today we get to see how a process called keto flexing, which combines a ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting and other secrets can help deliver metabolic health. Our guest is Ben Azadi fdn P, who is on a mission to help 1 billion people live a healthier lifestyle. Ben is the author of several best selling books, the perfect health booklet, the intermittent fasting cheat sheet power of sleep, and most recently keto flex. Ben is the founder of keto camp, and is the go to source for intermittent fasting and the ketogenic diet is also known as the health detective because he investigates dysfunction and educates not medicates to bring the body back to normal function.

 

 

 

Before we begin, I would like to again mention that this show is separate from my teaching and research roles at the medical school which with which we’re time currently associated. It is part of my continuing effort to bring quality evidence based information about health and longevity to the general public. Now, please enjoy this interview with Ben Azadi.

 

 

 

Hey, Ben, welcome to the show.

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  1:19  

 

 

 

Rob. I’m grateful to be here with you and everybody else. Hello.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  1:23  

 

 

 

Yeah. Well, you and i, you and i share I think a common vision of helping people lead healthier lives, especially through the use of ketogenic diets and intermittent fasting and we have so many so many interesting things to talk about. But before we do, I wonder if you could set the stage for us and tell us about your your personal journey and how you came to be involved with this, this fascinating area.

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  1:51  

 

 

 

I would love to so I grew up here in Miami Beach, Florida, born and raised and I followed a standard American diet which we know is really toxic process and not going to contribute to a healthy long longevity life, a healthy long living life, I should say. So I was obese growing up here in Miami. Parents were divorced left to my own devices had really bad behavior, lifestyle decisions that I made such as addiction to video games, addiction to sugar and drugs and alcohol. In this transferred into my adulthood were back in 2008. I found myself as a 2024 year old man who was obese at 250 pounds, lost in life, depressed, suicidal, wanting to give up on life, had no goals, I always say that I was tiptoeing my way through life hoping to land safely on death’s door. So I was just broken, broken, and I needed to make a change. I didn’t have the energy to make the change. I didn’t have the health, the vitality, I had back pain, the sugar addiction going to the refrigerator looking for answers. And I was hopeless. And this is the time in my life where I actually started to pick up a book and read the book. And one book led to two books two, three to five to 10. And I read books from incredible authors like Dr. Wayne Dyer, and Bob Proctor and Earl Nightingale and Jim Rohn. And all these incredible authors and the books did a lot for me, they opened up a whole new world, but the most important thing it did for me and I hope this summit does this for everybody watching. It helps me take ownership and responsibility. For the first time in my life. 24 years old, I took ownership and responsibility. That word responsibility is so important. To me that means your ability to respond to life and my ability to respond to life up until that point was really poor. I was the victim of my circumstances. I was blaming my genetics, I was blaming my slow metabolism my enabling family members, I was blaming everyone and anything I could get my hands on, but the truth of the matter is that I am I was responsible and I am responsible. So I literally said those words out loud, I am responsible and for the first time ever, I went from being the victim of my history to the victor of my destiny and I started to actually exercise start to eat better and nine months later from taking that ownership and responsibility. I went from 250 pounds all the way down to 170 pounds. I went from 34% body fat down to 6% body fat size 38 waist to size 30. So finally Rob I carved out this physical six pack which is something I always dreamed of being a kid that was bullied and picked on. But the most important thing that I achieved was a mental six pack. I started to think better thoughts I started to realize how important those thoughts are to your health into your life. And that’s what got me started. That was in 2008 about 13 years ago and I’ve been searching for true cellular health ever since because Even though I lost the weight, I still didn’t feel healthy six pack abs do not mean you’re healthy. I was one of those fitness people, I still have had digestive issues and addiction issues. So throughout the years, I was looking at different diets and different approaches. And it wasn’t until 2013 that I got discover that I discovered ketosis and how amazing this ancient healing can be. And I applied it with intermittent fasting. And for the first time in my life, I started to see and feel what true cellular cellular health looks like and feels like. And ever since then, I’ve been teaching the gossip of keto and fasting, getting the message out there, my company keto camp, the mission is to educate and to inspire a billion people to help them understand how incredible their body is, and they have an innate intelligence that is eager to work for them, it’s an inner physician, and what we need to do is remove the interference and allow this innate intelligence to do its job. And that’s where ketosis and fasting comes into play. So that’s the mission and that’s my story. And that’s why I’m here with you today.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  6:07  

 

 

 

That’s such a, those are such a beautiful concept, especially the the idea of responsibility and, and and as it applies to lifestyle choices. Every day, we get to take responsibility for our lives and in the choices that we daily make in the you know, the food we eat the exercise, we we participate in the sleep we do, and and and other choices throughout our life responsibility is such an important concept for for, for all our health and wellness and longevity. Amen. I love your podcast, it’s it’s a I think it’s the top rated one in this space. And in particular, I love the introduction to it, where you say that we have access to ancient healing strategies such as ketosis, fasting and carnivore. And on the keto cat podcast, we are determined to deliver the science. I love that that take on it, it’s almost a spiritual, spiritual process. And it acknowledges that, that that fasting and particular nutrition strategies like ketosis are truly ancient and powerful medicines and in many ways, they’re much more powerful than the drugs that the conventional healthcare establishment has has to deliver. And so perhaps we could, you could start us off by just talking about your view of ketosis and, and metabolic health and how does what, what is ketosis? And how is it valuable for us all?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  8:01  

 

 

 

Yes, a great question. And it’s a popular question. A lot of people are going on Dr. Google and searching for the keto diet. And of course, there’s a lot of people who teach keto and do keto, but they’re not really focusing on cellular health. And all the speakers you have on this summit, they’re all focusing on, we’re focusing on cellular health, not just fat loss and weight loss, but actually health because that’s the way the body works. We’re not losing weight to get healthy, we’re getting healthy to lose weight. So we’re not focusing on at least I’m not focusing on calorie counting. When we talk about keto, we know that keto technically is not a diet. Yes, you can eat a diet to get you into ketosis. But technically, keto is a metabolic process and to what you were saying, Rob, it has been around since humans have existed every single one of our ancestors did, keto that is a 100%. Fact. And the reason it is a fact is because they didn’t have food readily available to them. So they had to fast, which forced their body to burn body fat and the liver produced ketones. This is a natural process. And then the modern diet, we have a keto deficiency. The standard American diet is a keto deficiency. The average American is eating 300 to 400 grams of carbs per day, they’re eating throughout the entire day. And they’re never experiencing this amazing metabolic process. This tool, this ancient healing strategy that we have available to us and the benefit of getting into ketosis, there’s several benefits. But let’s view this from a cellular lens. The human body has about 50 to 70 trillion cells inside of it. And out of those 70 trillion cells are so only two options for fuel. Basically, either the cells are burning glucose and sugar or the cells are burning fat and producing and using ketones. When the cells are stuck burning sugar, sugar burners, we call them like I was when I was obese, it’s not a fun way to live. First of all, you need to eat every two to three hours to keep going coasts up in the brain, otherwise you crash and get hangry. Also, it’s very inflammatory to the south, it creates a lot of cellular byproducts. These are toxin cells produce energy, as you know, through the mitochondria and the ATP, that energy that’s produced, creates a lot of free radicals and toxins. When a cell is burning sugar, it creates a ton of free radicals and toxins. So I always compare a cell burning sugar to a truck, a big Mack truck that is going through your streets with all this smoke being blasted out of the exhaust pipes of that truck, visualize this truck with all this smoke going around the other cars around the trees all on the road, that truck is not healthy for the surrounding environment. Well, when your cells are burning sugar and only sugar, it’s not healthy for your cellular environment, when we could teach the body to get into ketosis, which is called being fat adapted. That is a more efficient energy source, it creates a lot less of these free radicals. And I compare that a cell burning fat and using ketones to a Tesla cruising through your streets, that Tesla is a cleaner source of energy for the surrounding environment versus the truck. Well, ketones are a cleaner source of energy versus the glucose. So if we get understand that we know that this is a perfectly normal process, keto is not a fad. It’s a fact. It’s just very popular. So people think it’s new, but it’s just more new onst. So when we could get the body in this fat adapted state, you’re going to experience more energy, you’re going to experience more brain mental clarity, and a side effect of getting healthy and reducing inflammation, you start to lose some weight. That’s why we see so many people reverse their obesity, reverse their insulin resistance and diabetes. I mean, we look at the stats out there. As you know, Rob 60%, at least 60% of Americans are diabetic, or pre diabetic case that is closer to 85 to 90% of the population in the US, it’s just that people are not getting bloodwork done, and they have no idea. And it could take years for this develop, although they have these conditions. So if we can lower our glucose and insulin with keto, we could reverse a lot of these conditions. And that’s the proof in the ketogenic approach. And we see that all the time. So that is my viewpoint on keto. It’s an ancient healing strategy. And it’s an amazing process that we want to tap into.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  12:26  

 

 

 

So to to reiterate, in ketosis is a normal state in our bodies that that we do less and less because of the American diet, which forces us into the glucose side. So returning to ketosis is like you say, it’s not a fad. It’s not a particular diet, but it’s sort of a way of living. It’s a way of being that that is normal. And even, as you say, it has health advantages to when we burn glucose, then

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  12:59  

 

 

 

absolutely, yeah. And if you look, if you look at babies, right, here’s the case that burning fat as our primal birthright, babies that are breastfed actually go in and out of ketosis, because breast milk has saturated fat and cholesterol, yes, there’s sugar and breast milk, but the baby is so efficient at burning down that sugar, the baby enters into ketosis. And now, which helps the development of the baby’s brain which we know the brain is mostly fat. So we’re designed to tap into this amazing process the body is designed to do, but the standard American diet gets us away from that, and that’s the issue.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  13:35  

 

 

 

And, and all the things with ketosis is is is lowering inflammation and other positive metabolic factors that get us into this favorable metabolic state, which I have to admit as coming from conventional medicine. You know, what? It’s all about how we conceptualize disease as sort of, like hypertension. For many years, I was taught that hypertension is high blood pressure, it’s essential hypertension, you just get it when you get older. Nobody knows why it might be related to salt, but probably not. And there are a bunch of drugs that you give patients that lower their blood pressure, you know, we’re different mechanisms. And that’s the way a lot of medicine still works. But now, now, we’re beginning to understand that hypertension is actually a result of metabolic disease and inflammation and the things that ketosis helps protect us against, will actually reverse hypertension and make the hypertension go away and that like you say, in addition to the weight loss, and you know, and insulin resistance going down, also the hypertension will reverse and so it’s almost like giving the drugs for giving drugs for hypertension will keep you from getting a stroke from the high blood pressure, but it doesn’t treat the underlying problems. Which is a problem with the blood vessels due to the inflammation and metabolic disease and all the things that that ketosis serves to help. So if you have high blood pressure, you know, you might take a drug, just see, you know, you control it initially. But that’s really not a good long term solution. It’s really to change your lifestyle and decrease the inflammation and do something like ketosis then and, and this applies to so many other diseases like heart attacks, and strokes and dementia, and many forms of cancer. Now, it’s amazing that these all tie back into into metabolic health, which is driven by a ketogenic diet. So this is truly ancient and powerful and primordial. Even in a modern medical sense, this is revolutionary what you’re doing. It’s so great, so great to work you’re doing and getting this ketogenic diet and ketogenic lifestyle information out there. So another part of your program, which I which I want to get into next, but before we do, the other part of your program is intermittent fasting. So I’m if I, if I adopt a ketogenic lifestyle, and I, you know, I cut out my, my, my processed carbs, and carbs all together, much of it and processed foods. I’ll be in ketosis. So what is the value of intermittent fasting? Or can you talk a little bit about Yeah, what is intermittent fasting, and how does that fit in fit into this whole thing,

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  16:36  

 

 

 

they go hand in hand, fasting and keto go hand in hand, they both do a good job down regulating inflammation. And you mentioned all these conditions, these these diseases that are really symptoms. So being overweight, by the way, is a symptom. Diabetes is a symptom, cancer is a symptom, it is a result of the actual problem, and all roads lead to inflammation, excessive chronic inflammation. So if you could do clean keto and reduce inflammation, it could only help a lot of these conditions. Of course, you’re gonna work with your doctor on that, and this is not medical advice. However, all roads lead to inflammation. Fasting, intermittent fasting is one of the most powerful ways to reset your body. And when we think about the average person in America, they’re eating every two to three hours. One of my colleagues, Dr. Don Klum, I interviewed him last this year on my podcast, and he was he did a patient population survey, which shows that the average person is eating 17 to 23 times per day. And you might be thinking, how is that even possible? Well, they’re not sitting down at a table 17 to 23 times per day, but they’re grazing. Every time you raise glucose and insulin that is a meal to the body, whether it is your kombucha or your protein bar or, or a handful of nuts and seeds, or even chips or cookies or whatever you’re having throughout the day. And that is the opposite of fasting, you’re in a constant fed state, which is going to wreck your body essentially, it’s going to put a lot of stress on your digestive system, Dr. Zack bush referenced a study from the University of Virginia that wanted to track how long it took to process a standard American diet meal. So they took these college students keep in mind, the younger you are, the faster your digestion, right. And these college students, they gave them 800 calories of standard American diet, which was in this case pizza, and they wanted to track how long it took for this pizza to become fully digested, and on average, it was about 14 hours. And if you’re not fasting for at least 14 hours and eating a standard American diet, it’s going to create a lot of stress in your digestive system in your liver and your body and it’s going to create this backlog of food which is going to lead to a lot of problems down the line leaky gut and autoimmune etc. Fasting as a way to reset that gut let it repair let it recover because it takes massive amounts of energy, resources and blood flow to process a meal especially a toxic Standard American Diet meal. When you incorporate fasting, you’re diverting that energy away from digestion to healing the body. We have this process called a toughie g which I know a lot of your amazing speakers are going to touch upon. autophagy is activated through several mechanisms exercise synergetics, which are found and speckling a tumeric and different foods but fasting is one of the best ways to activate a tapa G and the the Greek definition of a toffee G is eat thyself. The body is so smart. I mentioned this innate intelligence within us. When we’re not eating food energy, it needs to get energy from somewhere. So a toffee g becomes ramp it ramps up and then the body the innate intelligence is looking for cells that are damaged. They’re called senescent cells. They’re inflamed mitochondria and asserts to repair your cells and organelles. And this is what’s happen. During a fast your body is so smart, it goes for the bad stuff. It’s like getting rid of expired groceries inside of your refrigerator that lead to a toxic environment. This is what’s happening in the body, we have cells, proteins, mitochondria, that all have expiration dates on them like the groceries inside of your refrigerator. So when you fast and apply it with keto, it’s a great way to start healing the body and they both do a good job fasting and keto keeping glucose and insulin low. So your body could go into this ketosis state burn fat and reset itself. So I love fasting and fasting strategies with keto.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  20:36  

 

 

 

So let’s see if I got this right. So So keto keto is great. And I can get that through my diet through lowering carbohydrates, and that will basically switch me to ketosis, and I’ll get the positive inflammation effects and all that, and if I stay in ketosis, then that’s great. But the additional advantage of doing fasting one is to basically give the gut a rest so there’s less inflammation just from eating I mean we all have leaky guts and one way or another and food itself is inflammatory. So it’ll give my gut reskin even further decrease the inflammation but then the important point you mentioned about a toffee g that when we fast we we turn down mtorr the the approach signaling protein and toffee g goes up. So there’s an added benefit in so many ways from intermittent fasting on top of ketosis. That’s, that’s beautiful. And now I wanted to I wanted to mention your your book here that I love, keto camp. I have it right here. It’s it your keto flex, excuse me, and your program is keto camp at the program. You came up with this. The approach to the approach to ketosis and intermittent fasting is beautiful. You’ve put it into this program called keto flex and it’s it’s described in the book here, but maybe you could tell us a little bit about how that works and how that fits together.

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  22:13  

 

 

 

Thank you Rob. Yeah, absolutely. And you I want to just touch upon real quick you mentioned mTOR, which I know you have some other speakers that are going to talk about that the magic is in balancing out a toffee G and M tour which they have this inverted relationship so m Tour, which is mechanistic target of rapamycin, that’s anabolic, its growth in the body spurts of it is great, you know it’s very healing from time to time, but when you’re constantly eating too much growth cancer cells duplicate leads to problems look at bodybuilders. For example. Now a tapa g is the opposite of catabolic, but in a good way, getting rid of the bad stuff. We don’t want too much a tapa G, we don’t want too much mTOR the magic lies in between and that’s where keto flex comes into play. We put together this book 311 pages, and we outline our four pillars to achieving this balance of mtorr and a tapa G. So the first pillar is called adapt, getting fat adapted, that simply means you’re in ketosis, so the Tesla analogy or cells or burning fat instead of sugar, that could take seven to 14 days. That’s not the same thing as keto adaptation. There’s a difference between fat adaptation and keto adaptation, keto adaptation, typically takes about eight to 12 weeks. And then at that point, now your cells and your mitochondria prefer ketones as the fuel source, but it takes those eight to 12 weeks of consistent effort in contests. So the first pillar will get you into ketosis, no keto flu required, which is really carbohydrate withdrawal symptoms, we get you into ketosis, and then we transition you into the second pillar, which is called fast. We already spoke about it. It’s all about intermittent fasting and changing up your schedule and letting the body get into reset a topology mode. Once you complete that pillar, you move into the third pillar called faith. This has changed over the years. What we currently do in the face pillar is actually carnivore, which is a very powerful way to reset the gut. eliminate these plant toxins, these anti nutrients you mentioned, every single person probably has some form of leaky gut. It’s a great way to eliminate that and have animal based fat and protein for about 30 to 60 days, which is the phase pillar, you’re phasing out all carbs, that’s why it’s called face. After that point, your eight to 12 weeks in your keto adapted and then we move into keto flexing, keto flexing is going to be different for every person, depending on where they’re at once they get there. But the premise behind keto flexing is this. I love keto. I think it’s powerful. Every single one around ancestors did it. However, our ancestors whenever they had the opportunity to eat carbohydrates, they took advantage of that opportunity and they flexed out of ketosis. So that’s kind of the premise behind keto flexing, I think we should be in ketosis most of the time, but I don’t think we should be in ketosis all the time. Plus, I view this way as more sustainable, better for somebody lifestyle. If you want to go to a wedding or an event, you could actually use that as a day an opportunity to flex out ideally with healthy carbs. So I teach you these different protocols and how to flex in and out. The ultimate goal is metabolic flexibility. You have today where you intentionally flex out of ketosis, which benefits the body helps make hormonal conversions T for thyroid, which is inactive to T three insulin is required for that. So chronically low levels of insulin could affect that so flex they could help with that. progesterone is also built off of insulin helps make these conversions and other hormones. So that’s what a keto flex day is. It’s not a cheat day. It’s a feast day, and it’s still a low carb compared to a standard American diet. You’re having about 100 to 150 grams of carbs for that day. So it’s more of a paleo approach. But if you did it the right way, you shouldn’t be able to flex back into ketosis within 48 hours, and that’s the four main pillars that I teach in keto flex.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  26:10  

 

 

 

Yeah, that flex is fascinating. Let me see if I i understand that so the the flex allows you to have some metabolic flexibility rather than being in ketosis all the time. And, and you mentioned back before when people start ketosis there the the, the ketogenic flu that some people have, but that’s that, that that won’t happen after flex day, right? Because you’re already keto adapted, right? You’ll just be able to go right back in

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  26:42  

 

 

 

and yeah, and I’ve seen this just anecdotally with 1000s of people that I put on there. I haven’t seen one get the keto flu if they are flexing after those eight to 12 weeks.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  26:52  

 

 

 

And then the Yeah, the the flexing idea is fascinating. And then I mean, looking back at our ancestors again, pre, you know, pre 12,000 years ago agriculture and all when they were in ketosis, most of the time you say hunter gatherers, and, and all they might find, I guess a beehive with some honey in it or, or fruit, you know, in the fall with a lot of fruit toasts. So they would they would flex relatively infrequently. What is the recommended interval there? Does that vary with everybody? Do you use CGM to track which is the best interval or, or what? What’s your approach on that?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  27:31  

 

 

 

It’s good. It’s very difficult. It’s going to be customed to the person I love CGM continuous glucose monitor that’s a great one of the best health devices you can get to really see what’s going on even when you’re doing keto, because there’s some foods that you might have a sensitivity to that are keto friendly, but you might see a glucose spike and a CGM will give you that data. So yeah, using a CGM would be great. Ideally, we don’t want to see our postprandial glucose, which is postprandial meaning after eating a meal an hour after eating a meal, you don’t want to see that glucose go above 120, right. So you could use like a keto Mojo or a CGM to see what’s going on with your glucose and then two hours after eating, you want to see that drop back down below 100. Even on a keto flex day, women who do keto should do it differently than men fasting as well. So in chapter 12 of my book, it’s a chapter all about keto and fasting for women. So for example, once you reach that point of keto adaptation, you’ve finished the first three pillars and you’re a woman who has a monthly cycle. In the book I talked about the seven days right before your period is when you’re going to have seven keto flex days, higher carb days, you’re not going to do keto, you’re not going to increase your fasting schedule beyond 14 hours. Because progesterone and estrogen are very low. That week, it’s at its lowest point and getting those that insulin up in a healthy way, will actually help build progesterone help you have a healthy monthly cycle. Once the period hits, you’re gonna go back into keto back into fasting. So that’s one variation of it, men could get away with a little bit more of an aggressive approach. Since our hormones are on a 24 hour recycling pattern. Women are different. So men could do maybe just one flex day a week where you just designate one a Saturday or Sunday or whatever day you want, where you just get out of ketosis and back in, if you’re insulin resistance and type two diabetic, at the point of keto flexing, you might want to vary the flex by instead of having 100 to 150 grams of carbs, you might want to just make it an M tour day based off of protein in a caloric surplus. So there’s different ways to do it. But in general, I like maybe once a week as a keto flex day for most people.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  29:44  

 

 

 

So as you say, the flex day it’s not like a Tim Ferriss cheat day. It’s more more controlled levels of carbs and not super high, processed things. And then if you have access to a CGM or continuous glucose monitor, you want to keep your glucose under 120 or keto Mojo. And so it’s it’s sort of controlled access to two carbs and then and then and that’s just one meal, right? And then you basically and then you bring them back down after that and go back into ketosis and the program, correct?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  30:21  

 

 

 

Yeah, it’s for the for the day, right? So when I say up for the day, okay, yeah, when I say 100 to 150 grams of carbs, that’s not in one meal, it’s throughout three meals for that day. And if you’ve done it the right way, like you said, Rob, you should be able to get right back into ketosis within 48 hours of doing that, and that’s a good sign of a healthy metabolism.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  30:39  

 

 

 

Yeah, I just I switched to one meal a day for about the last year and a half. And so I’m like, in my own mind, I’m like, I got to cut. The meal is the meal of the day. But it sure tastes good. I have to admit that it’s the one yes. But yeah, so I love this idea. With keto flexing, it’s beautiful the way it balances, kind of the the mtorr needs and the insulin needs in in in a in a healthy way. And then watching out for thyroid, helping the insulin, do the T 34 to T three conversions. And then you mentioned the testosterone deficiency and all and in your book, I think you mentioned leptin, too, which is a contest to help with help with that

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  31:30  

 

 

 

is there’s another one, there’s another one Rob that. So the book came out in April of 2021. And ever since, of course, we’re always doing research. So there’s Excel fast. Yeah. So there’s another thing that I’ve discovered with the dangers of long term kurtosis, especially when you’re having a lot of these industrial seed oils. And there’s a nasty free radical called for h n e, which is four hydroxy netanel. And I’ve seen a lot of studies. Well, first of all, this free radical is a carcinogenic, it could lead to cancers and mitochondrial dysfunction. And I’ve seen several studies, I think there’s five that I have in my notes here, that long term kurtosis, you’ll see a slow build up a four H and D, which is why there’s some studies that show keto can lead to cancer. But keep in mind, that’s people who eat a lot of extra boilers, industrial seed oils, which we don’t want to do that we want to do clean keto. So that’s a fifth reason the book I have four reasons. But if I had to do a second version of it, I would add that for that fifth reason in there.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  32:33  

 

 

 

Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s great. Let me see. Let me let me underscore that point in the book, too. You mentioned clean keto versus dirty keto and dirty keto would be seed oils. Is that right? And getting fats from unhealthy sources. And just to emphasize for our audience that you agree that that seed oils are harmful and to be avoided as well then,

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  32:57  

 

 

 

with 100% Yeah, I mean, they’re seed oils, or they’re called vegetable oils. It’s not an accurate name for them, but they’re called an extra oils as well, but they’re really industrial seed oils. They’re worse than sugar. Well, I Dr. Benjamin, Big Ben, are you familiar with Dr. Beckmann? Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Love him. I’ve interviewed him five times of most, that anybody’s ever interviewed him. I’m proud of that. And by the way, on my last conversation with him just a few weeks ago, I, we were talking about seed oils, linoleic acid, and these PUFAs, and I said, Hey, Dr. Bergman, I want to I want to debate you, and I want to debate you in a friendly way, because I love him. And I’ve learned so much from him. I said, I asked him because somebody else asked him, I think it was Dr. Mindy palace. My cloud colleague asked him what’s worse sugar or seed oils? And he said, Well, I’m a little biased because I’m the insulin guy. So he said, I’m probably going to lean towards sugar. And I said, Well, I rather have somebody eats a standard American diet that’s high in carbs and processed with minimal seed oils, versus somebody eating a ketogenic diet, highest feed oils, and he actually tended to agree with me, but here it’s a hypothetical, because if you’re eating a standard American diet, typically you’re getting the seed oils, but I want to just make the case to why the seed oils are so bad. And I’ll give them a list of all eight of them. They’re oxidized, they’re rancid the processing of them. It’s a brilliant process when it comes to manufacturing but it’s very detrimental to our health. And the reason I say they’re worse than sugar is because if you ate a high carb meal that is, has no seed oils, yes, you get this spike in glucose, but you go exercise, you can burn that off, the body can burn off excess glucose. You eat these vegetable oils, you can’t really burn them off. It’ll create inflammation around your cells around the mitochondria, the membrane around the mitochondria, and it can lead to inflammation for weeks and even months. Some studies suggest they’re very unstable. They’re called poor with us and Dr. Kate Shanahan Oh, it says poof has go poof. what she means by that is they have these conjugated double bonds that are closely located to each other that are attracting a lot of oxygen. And when that happens, it creates a lot of oxidation and inflammation. And it cannot really be used as an energy source by yourselves. So when you consume them, it’s creating there, it’s building your fat cells, they’re they’re really inflaming the receptor sites around your cells, leading to hormone resistance, leading to nutrient deficiencies, leading to a lack of energy production by your mitochondria, all bad things. So the list of them are three C’s, three S’s and two and two others and Dr. Kate Shanahan calls them The Hateful Eight. So we have canola oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, we have soybean oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil, and then we have rice, Bran oil and grapeseed oil. Those are all keto friendly, they might get you into ketosis, but they’re not going to get you healthy. They’re very unstable and highly inflammatory. So what we want to do is switch to stable fats, saturated fats, monounsaturated fats, we love coconut oil here at Quito camp, we love all real olive oil, avocado, oil, butter, ghee, duck fat lard people are shocked at these are stable fats that don’t have the same issue. So that’s what we want to do.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  36:30  

 

 

 

Yeah, that’s such a such a important point. And, and, and even going back to the historical or historical analogy is that our ancestors are used are used to being exposed to carbohydrates once in a while, in the form of honey, or fruit or fruit toast. But a lot of these industrial seed oils are just that they’re industrial byproducts that are manufactured. And, and I’m not sure that we were exposed to them earlier than then now. So, you know, genetically, biologically, they’re really very foreign. So that’s, that’s a great point. Well, the I. The other thing I didn’t mention, in addition to your podcast, I mentioned the beginning, though, was your YouTube channel, too. It’s excellent. It’s one of the highest rated ones out there. Be sure I want to make sure our audience to be sure as MIT takes advantage of that, and and looks at all the great material you have there. And also, I yeah, I wanted to speak about let them know about the programs that you’re doing specifically keto camp, and how how they can become involved with that. And what what is keto camp do and what are what do people experienced there?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  37:47  

 

 

 

Thank you, Rob. Yeah, so the keto camp Academy is an online platform where we offer a step by step complete system on the four pillars I mentioned. So it’s a step by step system of tutorials by me over 200 videos in there with detailed notes in each video taking you through these pillars, but also giving you health coaching from me as well. We do group coaching calls twice per month on zoom, we do zoom workouts. I also bring in once a month expert in the field to do a masterclass. We’ve done with Megan Ramos, we’ve done with Ken Berry, Dr. Fung a lot of people you have in your summit here. So I’ll bring in an expert to kind of educate as well. So that’s called the keto camp Academy. It’s a step by step system for keto and fasting and you get group coaching from me and support from all the other members and you can learn about that over at Kido camp Academy calm I also talked about it I sprinkle it in the book as well keto flock, so the book is a great start for you. But if you want to take it next level and have somebody actually coach you with me being that coach, the keto camp Academy would be your best option.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  38:52  

 

 

 

And this is available online so anybody anywhere can can sign up for that then all you need

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  38:59  

 

 

 

is internet access and web browser, let’s say

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  39:03  

 

 

 

what a great world we live in. I know well, as a as an expert in in this area is you’ve spent years now helping people with their lifestyle choices about ketosis and choices about seed oils and and choices about intermittent fasting. And in your book you get into a lot of other things about sleep and other things as well there but sort of as a, as a master of lifestyle for health and longevity. I’m wondering if if you would mind sharing with our audience, what the personal choices you make in your own lifestyle, that you feel better that are best for you. And bearing in mind, everybody’s different and you know, we all we all personalize our choices, but it’d be the fun and great to hear what choices you’ve made for your life.

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  40:00  

 

 

 

Absolutely a great question. I’m glad you asked. I’d be happy to share that so I protect the first hour of my morning and typically the last hour before bed that that time, those two times are the most important for the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind is running the show 95% of your results are coming from your subconscious mind. A lot of people are unaware of what the subconscious mind is doing for their health. I always say you have to exercise before you exercise. And how you change your subconscious mind is constant repetitive action. So the time before bed, and when you wake up in the morning is when the subconscious mind is at its most impressionable point. So whatever you feed, it then will manifest into your reality. A lot of people are feeding their subconscious mind, social media, mainstream news, scary movies, you know, negative things right before bed, and then they wake up and they check their phone. First thing, I used to be that person. So what I do is I write down my goals and my gratitude every night before bed. And I read it in the morning, as well with affirmations and then I go take my dog for a walk here in the Bay harbor islands, which is where I live. And I’m getting morning sunlight, which is so important for your circadian rhythm and your hormones. We’re getting morning sunlight through my eyes on my skin. And as I walk my dog, I’m literally saying affirmations in my head. I’m saying I am healthy, I’m loved, I’m healing I have a whole bunch of affirmations I’m feeding my subconscious mind what I want to work for me because I I truly believe what we appreciate, appreciates, and what you think about and what you think about through gratitude, you start to bring about, there’s a part of the brain called the reticular Activation System. And whatever you feed it, you’ll see more of so if I want to feed that reticular Activation System, good things, not problems, not toxic thoughts. I really believe if you’re thinking is thinking your dreams are shrinking, health dreams, financial dreams, relationship dreams. So for me, I protect those two times throughout the day. And then about an hour and a half after I wake up I’ll have my morning cup of coffee, I use organic coffee source with French press and I’ll put a little bit of some butter sometimes and some MCT oil and some sea salts. And I’ll drink that until probably the afternoon is when I’ll break my fast around 2pm or so I’ll have my first meal which is typically high fat, high protein, of course keto friendly, and then I’ll have another big meal around 5pm. So I have kind of like a three to four hour eating window. And then I’ll flex once or twice per week because I’ve already done the work myself. So that in general, I hope I answered your question that in general is a typical day for me.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  42:42  

 

 

 

Yeah, that’s great Do you use as far as devices do you use? ketone breath monitors or keto Mojo blood or CGM? Is any of those you find useful for your your daily life?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  42:57  

 

 

 

Yeah, I’ve used them all. So I like biosense makes a great breath ketone meter I have them here. I like keto Mojo as glucose and ketones. I’ve used CGM from neutral sense in levels. I’m currently not using a CGM, but I love from time to time to put it on for 30 days and do some experiments. If I do carnivore What does it look like with the CGM, so I don’t feel the need personally to test my glucose and ketones anymore, unless I’m changing my nutrition and experimenting with something. So I do believe in the beginning, it’s important to test to get an idea of what’s going on. But you could reach a point like me when you know you’re in ketosis, and you know, your glucose is good. So I have all those devices. I just don’t wear them every single day. I don’t use them every single day. I do use this though, which is an aura ring, which is a great biohacking device tracking my total sleep REM sleep, deep sleep, it’s looking at different of my heart rate variability. It’s looking at so many different factors. So this is something I use every day.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  43:55  

 

 

 

Oh, that’s great. How about nutrient nutrient supplements, any supplements that you that you use personally you’d recommend?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  44:03  

 

 

 

Oh man, if you looked at my cabinet and my kitchen, you’d be like, Whoa, we got more things here than the hospital. Yes, my viewpoint on supplements is of course you want a whole food source supplements I like rotating my supplements. Everything in nature is cyclical. So but one of the one of the supplements or some of the supplements I get asked us a question a lot from my Academy students. They’re like, you talk so much about different supplements, you interview all these people, which ones do I take, and it’s gonna be very customed to the person depending on what they’re going through. But the staples I’ll give the staples, magnesium. I love 400 milligrams of magnesium, either three and eight or glycinate or citrate or even like a complex of them or a nanoparticle. I’ll rotate my magnesium, but I take that 400 milligrams every single day. I like a product called ion gut health. Have you have you heard of ion by Dr. Zack bush?

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  44:55  

 

 

 

Yes, yes. Yeah, it’s a liquid and it’s

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  44:59  

 

 

 

what’s called a re molecule for the gut. So that just helps close tight junctions. So I take a tablespoon three times per day I give it to my dog. I like ion and I like a vitamin D complex with all the fat soluble vitamins to keep my you know, immune system up to protect myself. So I take vitamin D with fat a fatty meal, and then hydrogen water I drink every single day I have a machine that makes my own hydrogen water, I give it to my dog as well. So those are a few staples. And one more I add on there that I’m thinking of is a plant based omega called pure form, which is not rancid, like most fish oil. And it actually is plant based omega which are called parents essential oils, which actually help your body make its own fish oil, your body can actually create its own EPA and DJ through these, what’s called peos. So I take these plant based omega is which also help my cells get oxygenated as well.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  45:54  

 

 

 

Oh, nice. Nice. And then how about prescription drugs? Any Metformin rapamycin, you mentioned senolytics are you taking any of the longevity drugs?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  46:08  

 

 

 

I don’t take any any of those I do you take bourbon dye hydro bourbon on my keto flex days, if I know I’m gonna have a high carb meal, I’ll take some bourbon. I don’t take any medication at all. So not that I’m opposed to like some of the benefits of those that you mentioned, but I haven’t really dabbled in it myself.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  46:28  

 

 

 

Yeah, I mean, they’re certainly they’re certainly under investigation and they’re Yeah, experimental and and all that we’re not recommending people take rights. But but but many of our speakers do, and they’re comfortable talking about it. So I just, I just put it out there. This is such an amazing time in medicine and, and in health, there’s so many things changing the way we thought about things even 10 years ago, is is dramatically different in in my space and our space here together. It’s it’s such an exciting time, things are moving so fast. And we can only imagine what the next five or 10 years are going to are going to be when we find even more things. Yeah, so maybe Ben, could you give us for our people who are listening? Can you tell us your website so they can access it? How they can access it?

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  47:25  

 

 

 

Yeah, my website is Ben Azadi calm, and you can find all of the resources on there. My social media, my podcast, my books are on there. So Ben, as it calm,

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  47:36  

 

 

 

yeah. And well, we’ll have everything in the show notes, too, if people want to check that for any of the links, and we’ll reference everything and have the transcript as well. Wow, this has been this has been a delightful time, Ben, it’s so great to get to spend an hour with you and get to know you and find out about all the exciting things you’re doing. I want to thank you so much for being on this show.

 

 

 

Ben Azadi  48:00  

 

 

 

Rob, thank you. You’re a great interviewer. And I love the work that you’re doing. I’m grateful to be a part of this life changing summit. It really is a life changing summit. So make sure you’re watching these videos and taking notes and taking action and eliminating distractions. I’m personally looking forward to watching the other speakers myself. So thank you for allowing me to be a part of this and let’s keep changing lives. You’re doing amazing work, Rob.

 

 

 

Robert Lufkin  48:22  

 

 

 

Definitely Ben. So are you Thanks again.

 

 

 

Unknown Speaker  48:26  

 

 

 

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