The carnivore diet is in the news everywhere. What are the health benefits/tradeoffs? Is it more than just the opposite of a vegan diet?

Today we get to speak with Ede Fox Host of the popular podcast ‘The Black Carnivore’ where she provides all the info & inspiration you need to make keto and carnivore a way of life to achieve optimal health and longevity.  Let’s find how.


 #longevity #wellness  #Ketones #lifestylemedicine #younger #ketosis #biohacking #carnivore #RobertLufkinMD #rapamycin #metabolic #metabolism  #edefox #theblackcarnivore

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Robert Lufkin  0:00  
Welcome back to the health longevity secrets show and I’m your host, Dr. Robert Lufkin. The carnivore diet is in the news everywhere. What are the health benefits trade offs? Is it more than just the opposite of the vegan diet? Today, we get to speak with a fox, who’s the host of the popular podcast, the black carnivore, where she provides all the information and inspiration you need, you need to make keto and carnivore a way of life to achieve optimal health and longevity. Let’s find out how. And now please enjoy this interview with AJ Fox. Hey, welcome to the show.

Ede Fox  0:45  
Thank you for having me, I’m looking forward to this.

Robert Lufkin  0:50  
I think you and I share a common vision about the primary importance of diet in in helping determine determine our health and, and I can’t wait to dive into the area of carnivore and learn more about it. But But first, maybe maybe just tell us a little bit about about your story and how you came to be interested in such a fascinating area.

Ede Fox  1:19  
Sure, I’m happy to. So I started. I mean, you know, diet and exercise was like always a thing for me, I always struggled with my weight. So I was you know, doing like all kinds of food things since a very young age. And when I was I think in the late 90s I, you know, I tried Atkins for the first time. And it went surprisingly well. I mean, it was like probably my first most successful diet. And so I always had in my the back of my head, that low carb, you know, it was kind of a thing. And then, you know, I, you know, went back to eating my regular fare. And as a young person I like to go out, we go to bars, you know, to restaurants, and so on. So it was very hard for me to, you know, kind of stick to something that was very different from what everybody else was doing. But you know, of course my weight creeped up, and so on. So I, I reached my highest weight, I think it was in 20 2015. And at that point, I was 44, I was really feeling a lot of pain, a lot of aches and pains in the body. I mean, it was like I’d wake up in the morning, it would take several minutes to kind of warm up so that I could like get up out of bed and walk to the bathroom or whatever and, and not feel like so much pain. And I at that point just was like I can’t believe that this is, you know, this is it. If you know, it’s only getting worse from here, and I just decided I that was not going to work for me. And I was going to do everything I could to, you know, improve my health. And so I started, you know, trying different things. And I found and I remember that I had done well on a low carb diet before. So I decided to kind of do that again. And it went really well. And then I started those aches and pains started to go away, I started to feel a lot better, I started to lose weight. And so I was doing keto back in I guess I was like 2015 2016. And over the course of like a year and a half, I lost 80 pounds. And and that was great. And there were there were a lot of improvements that came with the keto diet, but there were things that I was hearing other people, you know, that was reverse that I wasn’t quite experiencing. So I kept listening, I was listening to the podcast, I was listening to the YouTube videos, I was listening to the conference, you know, speeches and whatnot, to try to, you know, to keep learning and to learn and understand more about the science and understand why, you know, this was why this was working for me and what I could continue to do to, you know, continue to improve. And over that time. I mean, I continue to hear people sort of talk, you know, occasionally about the carnivore, or the time it was called the Zero carb approach. And, you know, but um, you know, I was like, that’s crazy. Was like it to be that. So, you know, it was something I heard and I thought about but then I was like no, I can’t do that. And then I you know, I finally decided I think it was in December of 2017 to, you know, to really give it a full on try. And I did two weeks of just like ground beef and butter. And on day two, like I felt so much better that it was like, Oh my God, and I said this is it. You know, I knew that I would probably fall off and probably cheat but I knew that this was always going to be On bass, because it was it was so transformative for me. And then over time, once I, you know, for me, the thing that was really holding me back was continuing to to dairy. So once I took out dairy, my asthma went away. And I haven’t used an inhaler since. And it’s been a couple of years now. So that was huge for me, I stopped snoring, I stopped having, you know, a lot of, you know, nasal stuff, I, you know, the coughing, allergies, all of that stuff went away as soon as I took out dairy. And, and, you know, I really haven’t felt better. So I was so excited about how great this was working for me that I wanted to share it with other people. And so I decided to create, you know, my own social media account just to I originally started with Instagram, because, you know, when I started doing this, I was just kind of like, what am I supposed to eat, you know, when I was growing up, like my grandmother said, you know, your plate should have starchy vegetables and meat. And so I’m like, if I’m just carnivore, what goes on the meat, you know, or what goes on the plate, like, I still need two sides with that meat. So I just needed to, like, see another person’s plate and like, I understand what people were doing. And I recognize that other people coming into this need the same thing. And so I just started, you know, showing pictures of what I was eating, and, you know, hoping that that would help other people get started. And, and that’s where it all began.

Robert Lufkin  6:28  
Well, there’s so many so many interesting things I want to get back to about your story and, and the details. But before we, before we dive in, maybe let’s take the take the 50,000 foot view or something. I mean, like, like, so, so many things in our world today. Even Nutrition has become politicized, you know, you’re there, you know, with vegan and carnivores, sort of almost being the two extremes. You know, I, I, I had a stage in my life when I was a vegan. So I had a stage in my life for different things. And, and I, my belief is that, you know, we’re all different. We all have different nutritional needs. And you know, it’s possible to be healthy or unhealthy. on almost any type of diet choice we can make and, and but what is it about the, what do you what is a carnivore diet? And what is it about it that you particularly like?

Ede Fox  7:33  
Mm hmm. Well, I so I will also say that I definitely went through my vegan period myself, and it was a struggle, you know, that is absolutely not the right approach for my body. But, you know, I grew up, you know, I was born in 71. So my parents were definitely, you know, in the movement, they were, you know, kind of hippie ish. And so, they, they did the vegetarian thing. And that’s what I was fed. And I was told stories about how I was running after the other kids trying to get their hot dogs and hamburgers. So from day one, I knew what I wanted. But yeah, so I kind of grew up with this idea that vegetables are, you know, and a vegetarian way of eating is really, the more natural, the more caring about the environment, and, and the healthier. And so, you know, there’s just there’s a lot to unlearn as you kind of go into this way of eating. And but, you know, I had to remind myself that like, how I feel, is so important, and I cannot do the work in the world if I’m sick. And, and that has to be the first thing and and there’s such a market difference for me, you know, when I eat this way. So I’ll just dive in and say, you know, of course, I’m not a doctor, and, you know, I am not certified and all of this. My, my experience has been, I was getting a PhD in anthropology and I’ve always been interested interested in, you know, human evolution. So I have, you know, in the course of my studies, I was always I was interested in, like, subsistence patterns of human beings around the world. So I have been interested in how people eat and how they support themselves. So I was aware of like, the work of Loren Cordain, you know, years back when I was still in grad school, and it made sense to me that, you know, we’re mostly hunter gatherers, and we mostly ate meat. And, you know, obviously, there’s a range of how much plant foods, different populations add based off of their environment and the circumstances at the time. So there’s a range that people can do, but I saw for myself, there’s a very narrow range of what I can handle in terms of plant foods. And so when people come to me and I start talking to them about the carnivore diet, I mean, to me, there’s there’s two things that are going on. And, you know, one, the carnivore diet is, of course, a ketogenic diet. So all the benefits that you get from a keto diet, you’re gonna get on carnivore. So all the things that help you to reverse metabolic disease and lose weight, do all of those things. But to I think that, you know, there are a lot of plant toxins and anti nutrients and things that people are sensitive to. And so when you start removing that stuff, you know, you, you free up your body’s ability to heal, and to do you know, to do what it needs to do. And so that’s why you see such improvement in like autoimmune disease. And so for me, you know, I have gone long periods not eating dairy in my life, especially when I was doing the vegan thing. But it was the combination of being in ketosis not having the plant food and not having the dairy that really transformed my health. And so that’s, you know, what I tell people what to in terms of what to expect, is that you’ll see, you know, there’s, there’s a couple of things going on there. But the plant foods, you know, you think that they’re not a big deal and stuff. But, you know, for some of us, they are a huge deal, even in the most minut amounts. And so, you know, it’s worth trying. And I think, you know, and I tell people, like, you don’t have to do this forever, there’s no, you know, there’s no carnivore club, you don’t have to pay dues, there’s no you know, ID card, this is not about an identity, you just do it. And if you feel better than keep doing it, if you don’t feel better, don’t keep doing it. But you know, you have to give it an honest try and see what happens. And I think when people do that, they do find that they feel amazing. And then they decide, but you know, I’m willing to feel like 89% Amazing, and have you know, my like Mocha Latte, whatever, every day. So you know, there, some people are willing to take a little mock and feeling a little bit less ideal. So they can have some of these things. And if you if that works for you, then you know, keep doing it.

Robert Lufkin  12:06  
Yeah, there’s so many things there. Before we leave the anthropology portion. I love that you touched on that. I know I’ve got blue eyes here. So my ancestors were probably up in the north somewhere where there wasn’t a lot of sunlight. And who knows, there probably weren’t a lot of plants either. So, you know, they might have been some of them that are eating the meat too. What do you say to people today who ask or is there? What about the evidence today for current groups, or within the recent past? At least not, you know, 70,000 years ago, but But recent cultures that use primarily meat based diets? What can we say about that?

Ede Fox  12:57  
I mean, it exists. So it’s a clear indication that it is a viable way for human beings to eat. It doesn’t mean that’s the only way. But it is it’s viable, you know, so you look at the Maasai. That’s, you know, certainly an example. There are, well, I forgot the name, but there’s a population in, you know, like, northern Russia, I believe. And, you know, of course, the Inuit in, you know, the, the Arctic Circle, so, you know, so there’s people doing it, and they, the, I guess, in the plains, in the Americas, in the, you know, 1800s there were certainly indigenous tribes that were also eating primarily, you know, hunted meat or animal products.

Robert Lufkin  13:51  
So, so, then, I guess there are a number of benefits of this of this approach to eating. I tried to not say diet, because these choices are really our lifestyle with, you know, carnivore or keto or, or vegan even. And it’s something that we the way we choose to live our life, not to something that we try for a week and then fall off of it. But so this approach, first of all, it has, like you said, all the benefits of a ketogenic diet of being in ketosis all the time, almost. And that’s, that’s a huge thing with with no carbohydrates. It seems like the carnivore diet would be a practically a cure for type two diabetes, or at least people would not express symptoms of it if they were on a carnivore diet. Sort of ketosis to the max there. Then, aside from the Aside from the benefits of being on the The ketogenic benefits of the low carb, been you mentioned the, the plant issues the, the sort of the, the negative side of eating plants. And that things like plant toxins and anti nutrients, can you can you talk about those a little bit a little bit more?

Ede Fox  15:23  
Sure, I mean, the way that it was explained to me that made a lot of sense is that, you know, animals have, you know, claws, fangs, and you know, they can run and they do various things to defend themselves, but plants can’t move. And so, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a defense system. So their defense system is entirely chemical. And, you know, now their main predators are insects. So, you know, they’re, the, the chemicals are sort of calibrated to, to, to do what they do to or incapacitate and insect and we’re obviously much bigger, but that doesn’t mean that those things don’t either have a cumulative impact, or, or even small amounts have a big impact. And you know, and I think that people also don’t think about the amount, I mean, one, we’re shaped like a doughnut essentially, right, so we’ve got this long hole going through us, and we eat, and we consume a huge amount of like external substances that go through this doughnut every day. And so, you know, we’re like engaging and touching and in contact with a lot of external substances. So you have to imagine that those substances do have an impact on our bodies. And the substances that we’re interacting with, you know, more and more today are, are just so you know, divorced from what we might have been eating 100 years ago, or 200 years ago. So even though there was, you know, much more grain in the diet, you know, 100 years ago, it really doesn’t resemble what we’re eating today. And, you know, things are so processed, that, you know, that they have like, it just a very big impact. And, and also, you know, I also have to remind myself that, the more the finer the material, the more you turn something into a powder, the the stronger and bigger impact it has, as you consume it, you know, so just like chewing a coca leaf is going to be very different from snorting a line of coke. So to is, you know, going to be like chewing on a, you know, a whole wheat berry versus eating, you know, a pop tart. So, you know, so that’s, that’s something to consider.

Robert Lufkin  17:40  
Yeah, and, and the, I guess, I guess, then thinking along the lines of plant based, so coffee would be in the grinding, then coffee would be not part of this diet then. Right? The sort of tea and coffee. I know, this is different people have different views. But yeah, what’s your take on it?

Ede Fox  18:07  
Well, you know, so people are, I feel like it’s important to meet people where they are. And so I am definitely not one of those people that’s like, This Is Hardcore, this is how you do things and nothing else. And so I the way I present it in the black carnivore community we have three buckets you can be strict, which is only foods from the animal kingdom, you can be moderate which includes herbs and spices, coffee, low sugar fruits like avocados and olives and then you can be relaxed carnivore, which would include artificial sweeteners, or if you go out to a restaurant and like aside comes with your meal and you to see that side. And I tell people, you know, you can, you can stay in one, you know, Silo or you can, you know, you can move but fluidly between them, you can be strict for breakfast and lunch, more relaxing at dinner, you can be strict all week, more relaxed on the weekends, you know, it’s really kind of up to you and what your goals are. So if you are trying to treat you know, a very like a chronic disease where you know, where things are pretty serious, then obviously, you have to be super strict. But if you are, you know, at or close to your goal weight and you’re generally healthy and you’re just trying to institute healthier habits, then you can be more relaxed. So it really kind of depends on you, and you know, your goals and how you want to feel. But you know, and I do. I do tell people to try it. You know, my I do a carnivore challenge a 21 day carnivore challenge. And the reason why I do three weeks is I think it’s long enough time to start to see some of the benefits of a carnivore diet but it’s not so long that people find it. You know, there is It is difficult to commit to. And I do believe that once people get on it and start to see the benefits that, you know, that’s going to resonate. So you might not stick with it, you know, the first time the second time or the third time, but over time, you’re gonna continue to remember how great you felt and will kind of want to get back to that. And so, you know, so I, I’m interested in people like having a taste of carnivore and being interested in returning to it, even if they don’t continue it right now. So it’s fine. If you want to do it for a week, it’s fine. If you want to, you know, try to people use it like a, you know, a cleanse or a, like, what is it like in AIP, autoimmune Protocol, or, you know, something like that, and I think that’s great, you know, definitely go for it.

Robert Lufkin  20:52  
You know, correct me if I’m wrong, but people people ask, few of our listeners have sent in questions about like, how can you not eat any carbs, and of course, carbs are one of the three macronutrients with protein and fat that your that are not essential. So we don’t our bodies don’t need carbs at all. But they also have the other question is, okay, you don’t need carbs, but how about vitamins? How about everything else? And, and? Well, for First of all, I think for me, you can actually you get some glucose into glycogen, just like we store glucose as glycogen and, and there’s a small amount of carbs, just in me, that’s just as part of it, but it’s very, very, very small amount. Have you found that, on this lifestyle, it’s necessary to routinely supplement with, with any diet, I’m sorry, with any vitamins or any supplements.

Ede Fox  21:57  
So I only supplement with electrolytes and, and how much I need, you know, kind of depends on like, what I’m doing and the time of year and so on, you know, as at a very base level, you know, I think most carnivores Well, that’s not true. A lot of carnivores, liberally salt, their food, and that’s unique, you need that as a base. And then some people may need to add electrolytes, you know, on top of that, to make sure that they’re keeping all of them up, you know, magnesium, calcium, potassium, chloride, and sodium, those are, you know, the electrolytes. And so some people add that on a top. Additionally, there are some carnivores who add no sodium and just eat the electrolytes, it’s in the food, and they don’t add any further on top. So those are two different ways of doing it both, you know, seem to work for people. But I, you know, I think that meat is incredibly nutritious. I’m always surprised when people say that, and I think, you know, are you actually looking at the RDA, because if you compare, you know, like beef with like, you know, spinach or, or broccoli or, you know, any of the other vegetables, like, you know, the vegetable will sign with, you know, one or two nutrients, but the, the meat has, you know, the full complement. And, you know, when, and, like in magazines or something, when they’re, they’re going to compare these, these foods, you know, they might compare three ounces of beef, or three ounces of broccoli. But that’s not really a fair comparison, because in fact, I might eat, I’m going to eat two pounds of beef in a day. And when you’re talking about that volume, and the mineral and vitamin content, that’s its that’s in the meat, I mean, everything in, you know, the full amount that’s needed for the day, if not more, and, you know, one, there’s no way I can eat two pounds of broccoli in a day. And, and even if I did, that could not be the only thing that I ate, and it would be a very uncomfortable day to tell you that and it would not get me nearly the amounts of vitamins and minerals that I need. So, you know, if you’re gonna rely on vegetables, like you’ve got to get such an array so that you’re getting, you know, all of the vitamins and minerals that have been identified as ones that we need. But you can’t get them all from one source, but meat you can.

Robert Lufkin  24:25  
Yeah, that’s it’s an important point. And along those same lines. Another aspect of validation for this particular choice of nutrition is a study AJ and I were talking about beforehand, it’s just came out, and we’ll put the link to it in the show notes, but it’s by David Ludwig and others from from Harvard Medical School, and it’s a self reported survey of about 2000 adults consumed a carnivore diet for at least six months. And, you know, it’s not a perfect study because it’s self reported epidemiological, it’s obviously not a controlled trial. But at least it provides evidence that this diet works for people, for a lot of people. And it’s, you know, now, the analysis is in the scientific literature, and they, they drill down on things like their LDL levels, their calcium scores on their CT scan, and many, many metabolic factors. And it’s, it’s pretty impressive. For the for the insulin usage. In particular, for type two diabetics, I think they’ve reported that 99%, discontinued insulin, if they’re on type two diabetics, but it makes sense if you’re, if you’re on zero carbs, then it’s hard to be it’s hard to be a type two diabetic, at least, but we’ll link to this in the show notes there for those who, those who want to drill down some more on some of that detail. One question? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Ede Fox  26:07  
Well, I was just gonna say, Yeah, I mean, I loved it, seeing that study, and it was such a validation of, you know, what I see. And, you know, particularly in the black community, there is, you know, we have a huge problem with, with metabolic disease, diabetes and high blood pressure. And to see this kind of, you know, approach that not only is Super effective at reversing metabolic disease, but it can do it very, very quickly. I mean, I’m really surprised at how quickly people get off these medications. People are taking diabetes for I mean, you know, diabetes medications or insulin for years, like within a matter of weeks are, you know, are off? And that’s pretty stunning.

Robert Lufkin  26:53  
Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of the black community as being the black carnivore, and they’re obvious, they’re obvious medical system, you know, differences and the experience that different races have in health care system. What about the carnivore diet, specifically, among different different racial groups? So is it how do you apply it differently?

Ede Fox  27:21  
Well, I, you know, I wanted to make sure that there were people in the black community that knew that this was an option. And I think especially right now, there was a movement in the vegan, you know, culture to, to, you know, convert black people to veganism. And and if you look at the rate of conversion, it’s much higher in the black community than it is in the white community. And, and I think that that’s partly because, you know, we’re sick, we’re sick population, and people are looking for other, you know, changes that they can make, and they’re not being presented and option that includes me. And so, you know, we we see magazine articles, and blah, blah, blah, and everybody’s like, Oh, eat less meat, less saturated fat, less red meat, less red meat, and this is how you get healthy. And so when the doctor says, oh, you know, your, your a onesie is insured up there, you gotta, you know, you got to deal with this guy to get on top of it, then people think, Oh, all right, well, let me I know, I saw something about juicing and I saw something about, you know, eating less red, less meat, I’m gonna go vegan, and that’ll be what I do. And so I you know, and if, for if there’s someone who does this, and it works for them, and they like it great, you know, keep doing that. But for those people who are struggling, or you know, who like me, or who, you know, find they do the vegan diet, and they are gaining weight, they have, you know, horrible indigestion. And, you know, and their health is not improving, there is another way. And, you know, so often, when I look around in the carnivore community, I didn’t see faces that look like mine represented. And so I started looking for people who are doing the carnivore diet and getting them to tell their story. You know, and I think that the studies and the scientific information, I find it interesting, but I’m not sure that that is convincing for, you know, for everybody. So I wanted to make sure that there’s just like testimony out there of people just saying, this is how this way of eating has changed my life. And that, you know, that that would help people who are considering another way to, you know, to decide what to do. So, you know, so that was why I decided to start, you know, the black carnivore community, the black carnivore channel, and, you know, and basically I chose that because if there was anybody out there who was like, I wonder if any other black people are eating this way, they can Google it, and they would find me and indeed, tons of people have found me that way. So that is, there’s certainly a logic to doing a very straightforward name and I And so, you know, I’m really glad that I did that. But I think it is especially important to, you know, to just be able to see yourself in this way of eating. And so I mean, you know, I’ve certainly talked about, like, the traditional soul food restaurant, a soul food recipes, like, you know, how you do Thanksgiving and Christmas and like holiday, you know, family gatherings? And how do you, you know, make sure that you have food that kind of fits in with the culture, but also, you know, is good and doesn’t make you feel weird or stand out, you know, so that that is all important as well. But I think, you know, people we just need to see ourselves represented. And, and that’s what I do.

Robert Lufkin  30:42  
Absolutely. Yeah. Ben is Adi is a friend of mine, I think you’ve you’ve been on his podcast as well, and is his keto camp method and keto flexing, he’s a strong proponent of flexing with keto that is, I think, going in and out of ketosis and having alternate days, do you think that do you use that approach with carnivore? Or is it mainly to maintain carnivore and stay in it? Or is it more kind of cyclical type of thing.

Ede Fox  31:17  
So I don’t do that at all. But I think what’s important is to know who your audience is, and who you’re talking to. And so, you know, I mean, I’m 50, and a 50 year old black woman, so my interest is in, you know, staying healthy, and, and, you know, living as long as possible. And so the people that follow me are also generally, you know, between 45 and 55 or older, who have been obese, a long time that are struggling to lose weight, many have sugar addiction, and so there’s different things going on. And, and in that case, I don’t think that sort of flexing in and out of, let’s say, a higher carb diet versus a lower carb diet is helpful. And, and so, you know, for most of the population, you know, people are mostly carnivore, and then they bring in some vegetables from time to time, you know, whether that means like fermented vegetables, or, you know, just sort of, you know, they make a stew for their family, and, you know, they, there’s vegetables in the stew, you know, they pick around most of it, but they’re still eating some of it, it’s like, you know, there’s that level of eating vegetables. And, and some people kind of, you know, kind of are able to go keto, and then they come do carnivore for a month or two, like after the holidays, or if they’ve kind of gone crazy with, you know, with eating carbs and stuff like that. So I see people sort of dip into it like that. And I, you know, I think going back and forth between keto and carnivore can be pretty seamless. But it kind of depends on where you are with the Keto. I know when I first started with keto, I, you know, if I were starting today, I would, it would be a mess, I would never have any success because I’d be eating all of this keto treats and the, you know, the the big things with a almond flour, and all of that kind of stuff. And when I started, there wasn’t any of that. So when I started, it was like broccoli, and, you know, chicken thigh, you know, and that was kind of it. So, if I hadn’t started that way, I don’t think I would have made any progress. So for people who are doing like a cute, clean keto, they actually are what we call the relaxed carnivores. So they’re still hyper carnivores. So they’re still getting, you know, 70% or more of their daily calories from animal products. So there’s still the carnivore category. But when you start adding in a lot of treats, and artificial sweeteners and stuff like that, that’s when you know, it kind of gets iffy. And I feel like there’s not really a lot of benefit to being at that at the Keto. And then I also I consider myself a sugar addict. And there are a lot of people who, in the, the black carnivore community and I’m sure, you know, within the carnivore community as well who are sugar and food addicts and are in remission because they’ve stopped eating the sugar, but you know, even little bits of it coming in through some of these treats or, you know, sort of modulating your carb consumption, but including some sugar you know, that’s like a quick way back to you know, the hill that we were in with chocolate and all of that. So yeah, so when I before I went carnivore, I mean, there was a period I think that this just kind of happens when people do keto is that you know, vegetable stop taking center stage and you know, you eat the meat and then you have some vegetables because you think you do you need them and you but they just you have less than less of them, and you have more and more meals that are just neat. And that kind of happened. And then I started saving my carbs for wine, chocolate and nuts. And that ended up being like my diet, we eat white chocolate nuts. And that’s not ideal, by any means. Don’t do that. Do that. So going hard, and we’re actually kind of cleaned up and improved my diet because I was taking out you know, these substances, which are really you know, there’s, there’s no value to them, and they bring a lot of harm and there’s very little value.

Robert Lufkin  35:34  
Well, along those lines, I guess in a conversation about carnivore have to ask about honey, I think Paul Saladino is a doctor, salad dinos, a carnivore author who’s written a lot I but I don’t want to misquote him here, but I think he he enjoys honey as a as an animal product or something. It seems like that wouldn’t work for the ketosis side, or, or some of these other health benefits that we’ve talked you been talking about today? Is that your position also?

Ede Fox  36:09  
I mean, I think that you can stay in ketosis with having a very small amount of honey in a day. You know, most people can stay in ketosis as long as you’re under 50 grams of carbs a day. So you know, that you could have it. But whether you are going to thrive and do well, you know, is another question. And, you know, and I think if you are, you know, very healthy, never been obese, you know, fit male, then yeah, maybe you can have honey, and it’s not really a big deal. But if you and I’m talking to your audience right now, if you are obese, if you have metabolic disease, if you have found ever found that it was difficult for you to stop eating sweets, if you are not feeling good, and you’re in pain and struggling, adding honey is not helpful, there’s no benefit to it, there’s not enough benefit to it, that is going to overcome the negatives that come with it. And in fact, I was coaching a woman yesterday who, you know, when I talked to her, she was in my challenge, and she was doing great. And she was like, you know, everything’s fine. I feel great. I have no cravings, I have all this energy. You know, I’m not thinking about food, like, I’m now able to focus on, you know, my other job and like this other project that I’m working on, and everything is great. And I was like, Well, you know, you said you didn’t go over before and it didn’t work, like what, you know, what’s been different? Like, how did you like make this all work? And she’s like, eating the same things, while blah, blah, anything is the same. And then she said, The only thing that’s different is, I used to have, you know, a teaspoon of honey every day in my team. And I was like, Oh, that ani Where are people getting the idea? No, don’t do it. I you know, if you are part of the 12% of the population that is not, you know, it has no metabolic derangement, no problems with you know, any kind of insulin resistance, then maybe it’s fine for you. But you know, if you’re the other 88%, like, just leave it alone till you get further on your journey and get further healing. And then you can decide whether you want to want to risk it and try and bring it back in.

Robert Lufkin  38:29  
I want to hear more about your challenges. What can you tell us? It’s, it sounds like a great thing. So what do people experience when they do a challenge with you?

Ede Fox  38:38  
Yeah, so I have a Facebook group. And so you know, in the group, people, you know, posts up all the time they give them so give each other a lot of support, if you’re having challenges, cravings, whatever, you know, that stuff goes in there. And, you know, we encourage each other, I also post information so I’m trying to teach people about carnivore and understanding why it works and what the science is behind it all along the way. And then also provide motivational posts and encouraging people. And then I do a live stream once a week to answer questions. And and there’s a lot of great questions. And, you know, so it’s really what keeps me on my toes and, and I think it really helps people to kind of think about how to incorporate this way of eating into their lives. And, you know, and I think that’s the most important part, you know, we so often you know, we’re we get a new diet and we’re like, Okay, this is it, this is what I’m gonna do, I’m gonna lose all this weight. But you know, we’re thinking about the diet and fitting our lives into the diet rather than, you know, the way of eating into our lives and I and I want people to be able to imagine how they can eat this way long term in a sustainable way that they enjoy and is delicious and easy and affordable and all of that And I think that, you know, understanding that vision takes longer it takes a community, it takes hearing from a lot of different people. And, and so that’s what this community provides. So in addition to the weekly, you know, live streams, I also do one, a 20 minute accountability call to kind of help you identify what your goals are, what are, what are useful goals for, you know, for the challenge, I think that people also kind of come in with really unrealistic expectations about what can happen, what the human body is able to do. And, you know, so I tried to clarify that and come up with some real, measurable goals that you at the end can say, Okay, I did this, you know, because I mean, if you, if you don’t really have benchmarks, you don’t know, if you’re making progress, and then you know, you kind of give up, because you don’t feel like you’re doing anything, when in fact, you’re, you know, many people are being very successful. So, you know, so I do that I provide a meal plans, recipes, and also some workouts. So you know, it’s like, a total community, and, you know, and we’re kind of doing them in a rolling fashion, so you have friends and people in there. And then on top of that, I’m offering an additional bonus sort of program where you can also get some coaching sessions with me. And, you know, there, I really work with you, you know, on a much more personalized basis, and a group coaching environment where, you know, I kind of help people, a lot of times people, they join, and they’re like, Yeah, I want to do this, but then they don’t really know how to get started. And, you know, and a big part of that, I think, is sort of just figuring out the meal prep, figuring out what to do with meat, a lot of us, you know, like, don’t learn anymore, like what to do with me. So, you know, they get something from the butcher, and they’re like, I don’t know what to do with this. So, you know, I just kind of helped them to think about, you know, what, what you’re going to eat, when you’re going to eat it, how you’re going to prepare it, you know, how, what are you going to do the, you know, the first day, the second day, the third day, kind of think about what you’re, you know, what your activities are the things that are going on that week, how’s that going to play into what’s happening, and just really, you know, kind of get the mechanics going so that you can start moving forward and stop being stuck. And, and so that’s, that’s a big part of what the, you know, the coaching can be like, and just sort of troubleshooting for people. Because, you know, there is definitely some troubleshooting that has to be done. And like you’ve said, you know, everybody is different. So there are like, you know, there’s some general things that work for everybody. But there are definitely some things that have to be tweaked. For you personally. And, and I think people need to understand that, you know, so many times people will say to me, Oh, well, my macros should be this, or, you know, this, like, here on the site, you know, look at this equation says this, and it’s like, you know, the equation, that website is a general, it’s designed as a general guide, and it’s an amalgamation of, of information from, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people over time, but that doesn’t tell me anything about your specific body. So you still have to figure out how this stuff works for your body. And that is, at the end of the day, you’re going to have to be a little bit interested in doing some research and doing some n equals one experiments. And, and so that’s what I help people do is kind of figure out, you know, how they need to adjust things, and and start listening to their own bodies, because our bodies speak to us loud and clear. But, you know, we have been so conditioned not to listen that, you know, I mean, I I’m one of the things I’m doing is teaching people what hunger feels like, because a lot of times on carnivore people a big part of the problem that people have is they under eat because they don’t, because hunger feels different than otherwise. And so they just think, Oh, I’m not hungry. And it’s been like four days, barely eaten, though. It’s like, Yes, you are hungry. It’s just, this is why you’re irritable.

Robert Lufkin  44:14  
Yeah, yeah, there’s so many things to talk about with fasting. We didn’t even touch on that, and how that fits in there. But with your course, anyone can sign up anywhere. They don’t have to be on the East Coast or in New York. It’s all done over the internet. Correct. So

Ede Fox  44:31  
that’s right. And it’s open to everyone. So I definitely have had I mean, there’s lots of, you know, white people and people of all different races and ethnic backgrounds who are part of the community. I welcome that, you know, you just have to be interested in a more laid back approach. You know, and I think a lot of the people in the community are, you know, they’re not the weight loss is desired, but it’s not really the primary role. It’s, you know, it really is a lot about healing about feeling better, about, you know, feeling stronger and more energetic for, you know, and for whatever reasons that people might not be feeling that, you know, they’re, they’re trying to heal those things. So that’s more what the community is like, you know, there’s a lot of groups and places for, you know, very much younger and athletic people and people, you know, do workout certainly in my group, but, you know, this is not, this is not like a hardcore fitness group.

Robert Lufkin  45:34  
Well, maybe we’re gonna put in the shownotes, the contacts how people can do that. But for those of our audience who are just listening, could you just tell us now the how people can follow you on social media, and also how they can sign up for this fantastic challenge. It sounds like a great program.

Ede Fox  45:52  
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So I am on Instagram, at flat carnivore. And if you check my bio, there’s a link there. And it’ll, it will lead you to the links to sign up for, you know, for the challenge, and I have lots of offerings, I have some, you know, freebies of like different kinds of recipes and things. And, and I also have a YouTube channel, and, which is called Black carnivore, and I’m trying to cleaning up my YouTube channel, so that I’m creating more playlists, so it’s a little bit more, it’s a little bit easier to manage. So if you’re looking for information about diabetes, you’ll be able to find, you know, a bunch of different interviews that were that was the focus, I have a playlist of, you know, doctors, so if you’re looking for doctors who speak in support of the carnivore diet, you know, you can find that there as well. And, yeah, and there’s just a lot of great info there about, you know, how how to, you know, put it into your diet, what it can look like, in your day to day life. And, and I think that you’ll, you’ll really be stunned by the kinds of things that people improve. And, you know, and we talk about, like, the, the big stuff, you know, the metabolic disease, but, you know, there’s also little stuff, I can’t tell you how many people’s eyes improve, which is a little scary, because that lets you know that they’re already experiencing a lot of damage to the little capillaries in the eye from the diabetes, or the insulin resistance or prediabetes, whatever it is. So that’s a little scary, but a lot of people see improvement and, you know, stop having to wear glasses. And, and so that’s pretty awesome. You know, there’s a lot of skin improvement, which has a lot to do with a gut. So you know, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of changes there. People also are much more motivated to quit doing, you know, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, that sort of thing. For some reason, it just really seems to help people get off of, you know, some of these addictive drugs. So, yeah, there’s, you know, there’s a lot of other great things that happen. And, you know, we don’t necessarily know why.

Robert Lufkin  48:11  
Yeah, in addition to your video, your video shows the I really, I personally enjoy your podcasts every time I listen to them, I learned something new. So I want to recommend that also to people out there. Well, thank you, I want to thank you so much a day for for taking the time and being with us here and spending spending an hour getting to know you better. And also I want to thank you for the for the great work you’re doing in this space.

Ede Fox  48:41  
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I love getting to talk to people about this way of eating. And yeah, I’m just so glad to be here. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  48:52  
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