Stem Cells and Regenerative Medicine continue to dominate medical news. Let’s take a look at how they work and how they can specifically affect things like inflammation, apoptosis, epigenetics and mitochondrial health.
From an expert in the field, Joy Kong MD, is the founder and medical director of Thea Center for Regenerative Medicine. She is also the founder of Chara Biologics, a company that provides regenerative medicine products to physicians across the United States. Dr. Kong graduated from UCLA School of Medicine and completed a residency in psychiatry. She is a member of the American Academy of anti aging medicine. She is certified in advanced cellular therapeutic protocols. She’s board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and the American Board of Addiction Medicine. She is also the president of the American Academy of integrative cell therapy, and is an avid educator helping physicians to become fully trained in the science and practice of regenerative medicine.
(Thea Center for Regenerative Medicine has been renamed UPLYFT Longevity Center)
- 00:00 – Introduction to Jong Kong MD
- 02:05 – Tiger of Beijing book
- 03:04 – Background and Stem Cells
- 20: 25 – Stem Cell Therapy
- 23:00 – Tumor Growth
- 34:00 – DNA, RNA
- 38:45 – Mesenchymal Stem Cells
- 44:33 – Lyme Disease
- 45:15 – Inflammation, Fibrosis
- 52:20 – Ballpark Figures
- 58:13 – Great Practices
#stemcells, #tissue, #embryonicstemcells, #stemcelltherapy, #mesenchymalstemcells, #inflammation, #immunesystem, #robertlufkinmd #drlufkin #robertlufkin #healthlongevitysecrets
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Robert Lufkin 0:00
And welcome back to the health longevity secrets show and I’m your host, Dr. Robert Lufkin. Stem Cells and Regenerative Medicine continue to dominate Medical News. Let’s take a look at how they work and how they can specifically affect things like inflammation, apoptosis, epigenetics and mitochondrial health. From an expert in the field, Joy Kong MD, is the founder and medical director of Thea Center for Regenerative Medicine. She is also the founder of Chara Biologics, a company that provides regenerative medicine products to physicians across the United States. Dr. Kong graduated from UCLA School of Medicine and completed a residency in psychiatry. She is a member of the American Academy of anti aging medicine. She is certified in advanced cellular therapeutic protocols. She’s board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and the American Board of Addiction Medicine. She is also the president of the American Academy of integrative cell therapy, and is an avid educator helping physicians to become fully trained in the science and practice of regenerative medicine. And now, please enjoy this interview with Dr. Joy Khan.
Hey, Joy, welcome to the show.
Joy Kong 1:28
Hi, Rob. Yeah, great to be here.
Robert Lufkin 1:31
Alright, so, so great to have you today. I think we share a vision of improving health and longevity through through all kinds of interventions that we can make making our lives. But maybe before we dive into the some of the exciting details of stem cells and regenerative medicine that we’re going to talk about today, maybe we could just take a moment and share how you came to be here and interested in this. In this fascinating area. I I have to say, I enjoyed your book, that Tiger of Beijing read is the inspirational memoir of a fierce regenerative medicine physician, we’ll put the links in the show notes there. What a Thai, Thai Shanghai Wren, my wife is from Shanghai, Shanghai, and she came over about the same time that you came over. So a lot of the cultural touchstones in your book resonated with me, but it’s, it’s a great book for anyone and I highly recommend it.
Joy Kong 2:38
It’s definitely a very candid book. That’s the first year I you know, I hold nothing back. My my thing of my philosophy of living in the world is always just tell the truth. Because truth is powerful. You know, who am I hiding from? You know, I just, I just give people the whole truth. And you know, if I’m hiding from the truth, I’m just hiding from, you know, the universe itself makes no sense to me.
Robert Lufkin 3:03
So, so tell, tell us a little bit about your background and stem cells. And, you know, how did you how did you get interested in this area, from, from psychiatry to everything I know, I
Joy Kong 3:15
think it really hit me, I had to tell a little bit of AI, about my whole story. Because I did grow up in China. I spent my first 20 years in Beijing. So that, you know, on a university University campus, which is probably the top Yeah, it’s the top Science and Technology University in China’s Tsinghua University. And so my dad was a professor, and I was, you know, my mom’s chemistry teacher. So science was something that’s always fascinating to me. And I love you know, the idea of evolution, you know, you know, all the science subjects and you science fiction was my favorite genre. And but in the meantime, the culture is, is kind of immersed in this old tradition, right? 1000s of years of Chinese medicine. So if you go to any Chinese hospital, there’s all these departments just like what we have, but then there’s Chinese medicine department, so you can go consult with the Chinese Oh, is in the hospital, any hospital, there’s a Chinese department, Chinese medicine departments. So so in the pharmacy, there will be Western medicine. And then there will be all these Chinese medicine. So depending on what your doctor is prescribing to you, so there’s really no prejudice and the lack of prejudice shows up in the medicine cupboard, you know, in our home, it’s like in the drawers. They’re all these medicines are all intermingled Eastern medicine, Western medicine, it doesn’t matter. There’s no you know, there’s no prejudice, and my mom would just you know, find out what’s going on with me and then she would just go grab whichever one that works best for that situation. So so that was and then I also saw in my mom, how she was diagnosed with a cancer, Multiple myeloma is probably you know, it’s really devastating condition. And most people don’t live very long for a few years and they die. And my mom was 43 year old at the time, and she actually went to the best tumor hospital in Beijing stay there for six months did six rounds of chemotherapy, almost losing all her hair and, you know, with blackened veins. And finally, she said, let me out of here, because everybody that’s in the ward, you know, they’re like 10 people in the same big Ward, everybody had died. And she said, I, I, I’m done, I’m done with living in the hospital for six months. So she went back home, she went to a Chinese medicine doctor, and she got a, you know, you know, this prescription of all these herbs. And my dad was brewing these herbs morning at night, and my mom was drinking these nasty tasting potions, and then she was doing aerobics, that’s all she did. Within six months, all her levels of blood tests, everything went back to normal, she went back to work full time, and she lived another 32 beautiful years. So so that was a story I so So actually, the doctor that was the head of that, that treatment team was so impressed with my mom recovery, she came to our house and got the formula that my mom was given and incorporated that into the ward. So he was giving all the patients that Chinese medicine so that people can, you know, boost their immune system, so they can fight the cancer better. So as I mean that that is an example of East West integration, right. So that was kind of where it came from. And of course, I love science, I’m just fascinated by the methodology and how we can, you know, find out, you know, truth and, and the cause and effect. And so I went to UCLA for medical school. And, you know, I was actually working with the UCLA Center for East West medicine, I was always thinking, you know, I think the most ideal way will be to look at the body holistically, but also understanding the direct links using scientific language. So that was always in my head. And then because I love the brain, and I just think it’s so fascinating, you know, that’s what makes who we are, and we still don’t understand, you know, a whole lot about it. So I went into psychiatry, and even in psychiatry, I was trying to integrate the east and west, and I found it very difficult, because the Eastern medicine has a whole different language, right, we talked about the different constitutions, you know, the heat dampness, you know, the, you know, you know, too much, you know, you know, fire and all these language is completely just, it’s like a water and oil between East and West medicine, you know, we speak different languages, so I couldn’t quite in my head, really, logically integrate the two, until I found out this whole discipline called anti aging medicine, which is really an offshoot of functional medicine, right. And it’s really just, you know, I think it carries a lot of old tradition, probably about respecting the body as a whole. And in this discipline, in this functional medicine, anti aging medicine is and they are looking at the body as very, very complex entity with all these like web of connections. But then if you want to figure out why this earth works, then you you, you understand all the components of the herbs, and you try to analyze what each component is doing. And then it’s a very, it’s a little bit exhausting, because there’s, you know, you’re trying to study the web, instead of a linear relationship. But it does give language to, to, you know, this holistic approach. So all of a sudden, I could look at an herb, something that’s very holistic, and figuring out how scientifically I could explain in my head to myself and to our patients. So, to me, there’s a chance of true integration. So that’s, that’s when I said that this is it, you know, this is my field. And then of course, stem cell therapy is part of the whole holistic approach, I can’t think of anything that’s more holistic than stem cells, because that’s a cell, you know, that’s what made us right. So that’s a contains all the intelligence and it can talk to the body in a way that we don’t have any molecules, we don’t have anything that can talk to the body, the way that you know, the, the complex messages the cell can give. So that’s probably one of the most holistic approach, you know, besides light, and, you know, some other, you know, energy forms. So, that’s when I became really passionate about understanding it. But it’s, you know, it was one thing to sound great. On paper, right? Scientifically, yes. Stem cells, just like the example of embryonic stem cells sounds so great. People got so excited. Yeah. Now we can, you know, put the cells in the body and they can become all kinds of, you know, cell specific to tissue when we fix anything, and then realize, Oh, oops, it doesn’t work quite that way. And these cells can turn wild and inform tumors. So So, so we still haven’t translated that into, you know, a good clinical practice. But within the stem cell field, there’s certain you know, more defined you they’ll kind of later stage stem cells, not embryonic stem cells there a lot of research going on. And what I found is that there’s ton of evidence that they actually work for a ton of conditions. So I started learning them, I started compiling all these articles, because I just needed to satisfy my own brain, first of all, that, you know, like, like, I got into this puzzle, right, it’s like, going down a rabbit hole, you know, the passion of understanding, you know, how life works. And from trying to figure it out in my own head, that’s when I compiled hundreds of articles, and, you know, categorized by different organ systems and disease categories. And that’s actually how I, you know, Formula formulated the stem cell practice course, then I’m teaching doctors now is really, because I was trying to figure it out myself, because there’s no class, there’s no not even good textbook on stem cells. So I had to just find my own way, by learning from all these published scientific articles. So that’s kind of the my journey. You know, I still think, you know, all the integrative approach is very important. But stem cell therapy holds a very special place. And we can talk a little bit more, you know, a little bit later about why it’s so special.
Robert Lufkin 11:13
Yeah, no, I’m excited about getting into that. And I just wanted to echo one thing you mentioned about sort of, East West approaches to, to health and, and disease, and I don’t have the cultural background that you have. So I wasn’t exposed to Eastern approaches growing up. And I always remember, in medical school, first as a student, and as a professor, I, you know, I tried to be respectful of, you know, ancient Chinese traditions or ancient Indian area, Vedic traditions, but, you know, in the back of my mind, I realized, you know, or I thought, at the time I, I judged it as well, you know, what are they talking about, you know, the bowels and the gut, and, you know, and the chi and all this stuff in it, you know, I just I, I sort of disregarded it as kind of a, you know, a primitive approach to understanding something that now we we, and allopathic medicine, have all the answers. But since then, allopathic medicine is failing with, you know, diabetes, chronic disease, all these things are just out of control. And, at least for me, I’ve, I’ve come to the realization that a lot of the information in these ancient, these ancient traditions, especially about the complexity of the diseases, we’re facing the integrative approach, it’s not one cause but it’s a, like you say, a web network of things, that there’s actually a lot of wisdom in these things that are now even scientifically being proven to be true things like the liver and how important it is for, you know, all of our health and metabolism and metabolic disease and in the gut, you know, who would have thought but you know, it’s actually, you know, the brain might gut microbiome access and everything. So anyway,
Joy Kong 13:05
yeah, exactly. I am on that. And I think what’s exciting about Western science is that they’re nailing it
down to the molecular and cellular level. So they’re making the connections very, at a very kind of fundamental level, they’re figuring out receptors, you know, what exactly is the hormones that’s affecting it, but then they’re not recognizing that you have emerging properties, right, as the system gets more complex, as you have more more and more organ systems that interact with each other, so that you have a higher level of relationships. And that’s what Eastern medicine is so good at is pattern recognition. So they’re emerging onto the higher level relationships, and they’re looking at how everything is interacting together. And that’s where Western medicine needs to catch up on and they can learn they can at least you don’t have a mentor, which is Eastern medicine, you can you can always learn from Eastern medicine, and you have a mentor and you break through right, you become even better than your mentor. So but I think that’s first of all, you need to learn from the wisdom. Yeah, it’s
Robert Lufkin 14:08
almost like our notions of causality need to be opened up, like you say, it’s not a it’s not a single factor,
but it’s many different factors that all contribute to causality and, and hoping for, you know, a single drug necessarily, that will block a certain receptor may or may not be as powerful as some other like lifestyle, things we can do, or a combination of everything really was well, what we need to do, but yeah, so. So stem cells now, you mentioned embryonic stem cells. Now, for our audience. Maybe you could just start let’s start at a 50,000 foot level and embryonic stem cells versus versus adult stem cells are what are the types we should be familiar with.
Joy Kong 14:53
So So I always go back to the very beginning, which is what we were on day one when your mom and dad that, you know, had that spark and then you formed the fertilized egg, you know, finally one lucky sperm, right? Got the A, and then you got that first, you know, you first origin. And that is the first stem cell. And from that comes this, right, it’s, you know, nothing short of a miracle. So that original stem cell has potential to form anything, including in the future sperm and egg and including the placenta, including the baby itself. And so that has ability to form everything that’s surrounding this new life. And so we’ll start to divide and form a little ball. And what happens is that at between, you know, so there’s little ball and within the ball, there will be the ball itself, you know, will form the placenta, you know, what the, the tissue that’s outside of the embryo, but within the ball, there’s what’s called inner cell mass, and that will become the real the body of the baby. So between day five to seven, after fertilization, that’s when the scientists can go into the inner cell mass and take out a cell, and they can use that cell, that cell has the potential to become any cells, any cell of any tissue in the body. So that’s why it’s so powerful. And they thought, hey, we got the very early cells, and then this can become anything. Unfortunately, right now, we don’t know how to harness this incredible potential. Because, you know, people hear stories about these tumor formation, they may go to like a clinic in Ukraine, or in these places where they actually do embryonic stem cells, and they may inject stem cells, you’re always playing Russian roulette, because you don’t know when you’re gonna get a big tumor. Because tumor, you know, the teratoma an organized, you know, mess off of cells from all kinds of tissue in the body. So, so we don’t know how to control it very well yet. But as the cells keep dividing that ball, they keep going. And they’re still all stem cells. And until they actually form organs, right, when the baby’s formed, you know, with specific organs, then you have organ, the cells that are final there, the final stage, which is a functional working cell, in that organ, but within each organ, at the very last stage, they have organ specific stem cells. So let’s say liver, right, there will be these liver stem cells that will that can divide to form liver cells. So they’re always there in the organ, you know, even in the brain, you have those cells. So all over your body, you have this set out these final stage of stem cells that are ready to kind of form the last, you know, go the last step. But what we found also there was really interesting, you know, peep, some people are doing B cells, treatments. So these are very small, embryonic like stem cells, they’re kind of they’re pluripotent, which means that they can form any into any tissue in the body, any cells in the body. So they are, they have this great potential, and they talk with the local tissue specific stem cells. So you got, you still have all these hierarchies of different kinds of stem cells, right. And on top of that, you’ve got mesenchymal stem cells, which are all over your body, anywhere you have blood vessels, you have these mesenchymal stem cells. So these are, you know, some scientists want it to be renamed medicinal signaling cells, because that’s really a lot of what they do, which is to send us signals to rest the body, your immune system and to your local stem cells and, and to really coordinate this action of repair and regeneration. And what’s interesting was that the V cells won’t work there well, that the V cells and local stem cells, a lot of times you have a tissue damage, you have damage in a particular you know, organ like let you say, you know, you cut your muscle and, and if you keep having inflammation environment, it’s not correct, then the tissue is not fully healed, and you’ve got chronic inflammation going on. Do you have stem cells there? Yes, you do. But do those stem cells work? Well? Are they are they receiving the right message and are able to mount you know, their, you know, their, their, their work? No, they can’t because they don’t have environment and that’s where the mesenchymal stem cells come in. And they can change the environment of the body give everyone body the right message, tell the immune system Hey, you know, we’ve got an injury over here, let’s remove some of the debris let’s calm inflammation, let’s stop this raging, you know, this the war and let’s calm it down. So we can start to build you know, rebuild the nation, right. So, so that it talks to local, you know, workers and the local,
Joy Kong 19:46
The either the V cells or the tissues, big specific cells, so everybody can work together and actually we built so you got this complex system that involves stem cells but involves different kinds of stem cells. So what’s fun to me was that we didn’t know that we had stem cells until we had. So that the, you know, the stem cell size is still fairly new, you know, realizing what stem cells were, which definition is that they are have the capability to self renew. And they are, they’re able to replenish the tissue that they they reside in. So that’s kind of the, you know, the definition and the capability to self renew. And it’s the first time we use stem cell therapy was really the bone marrow transplant. And we had no idea that we’re doing stem cell therapy, you know, that was back in the 60s, and no one knew this was stem cell therapy, they just thought, you know, we’re giving them you know, the bone marrow, so they didn’t know why is working. So that was the first stem cell therapy. But then four years, they thought those are those are the only stem cells left in the human body. They thought they’re all in the bone marrow, which is completely untrue, because now we know their stem cells everywhere. So that’s kind of exciting evolution of the field.
Robert Lufkin 20:58
Is it? Is it fair to say with stem cells that that the difference between a stem cell and adult sort of mature cell is all in the epigenetic programming? Is that? Is that a correct way to look at it? And we’ve had a couple other speakers talk about epigenetics as far as DNA methylation for biological clocks and epigenetic clocks. So we’ve heard a little bit about it. And some people have touched on the Nobel Prize winning Yamanaka factors and all. But those are those are for basically rewinding the epigenetic markers on adult cells to rewind them back to some sort of some earlier stem cell form. Is that right?
Joy Kong 21:42
Luckily, exactly. And then what’s incredible is what is the guiding intelligence behind this? That’s what’s fascinating, right from the very first cell, how did that first well know that we’re going to divide into two and then four, and then we’re gonna form a form of book ball, and then from that ball, we’re going to start to form more complex structures. How do they know? So yes, they’re things turn on and off, on and off, you know, all the way down to where we are right now. Where there’s, you know, is like the, you know, the final stage where we still have on and off, but we’ve, we’ve lost, you know, some of the capabilities. So, you know, so we can now live and enjoy life. And then later on, you know, we’re all gonna perish isn’t a natural, you know, like, what is the intelligence that’s guiding us? You know, that that’s, you know, a whole other question, which is very exciting. Of course, you know, as a psychiatrist, that’s, that’s really cool to ponder.
Robert Lufkin 22:39
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so, so many possibilities there. Well, so. So, to summarize up to this point, then we have embryonic stem cells which which come from embryos, their player potential, but the problem is this teratoma formation and kind of wild cell growth. Is there a malignant potential to further is it mainly benign teratomas, as far as tumor growth, is that that the main risk factor has been
Joy Kong 23:07
what? What’s been the most reported? So? Yeah. Yeah, that’s mainly what all these scientific articles are
talking about. But, but definitely, when we obtain stem cells from the adult body, what’s interesting is that they can promote tumor growth. And that’s one thing that’s, that’s one reason I set out to study different types of stem cells to find the safest one for patients. Because once we realized that, that they are, you know, bone marrow has all the stem cells and people found out, oh, fat has a lot of stem cells. So a lot of the stem cells they they gotten, of course, there are different types of stem cells, but a lot of what they got was really the stem cells that are wrapping around the blood vessels, that’s nourishing the fat. So they they’re getting a lot of those stem cells, even the mesenchymal stem cells and other stem cell type too. So they will isolate those, and they realize, oh, we can inject people with this either locally or systemically, and they’re getting good results. The problem is, there are also reports of promotion of tumor formation, like if someone is prone to cancer, and already have a little speck of, you know, a, you know, good, you know, cancer cells, which probably most of us have, just a matter of how vigilant our immune system and how strong they are at getting rid of them. So we probably all potentially you will, you know, cells can go haywire and they can start forming, forming a little cluster. And if your immune system is good, you get rid of it. But if you got all these new signals are these stem cells who, you know, that’s a different difference between older stem cell older MSC, right along the blood vessels that you get from A fully grown human. You know, let’s say you know someone that is 40 years old, comparing to a mesenchymal stem cells from umbilical cord, these two are two entities, they’re drastically different. Because if you look at research, and adult MSC has the potential to promote tumor growth, because they have lost what I believe they have lost some of the intelligence that’s embedded in the younger stem cells, because the younger MSCs when they encounter an abnormal cancerous or precancerous cells, they can tell their surface receptor, there’s something wrong with the cells. So they will sent appropriate signals, one of the signals is called the, you know, trail like, and they actually triggers this apoptosis program, cell death of this cancer cells, so they end up can kill the cancer cells. But if you have adult, these MSCs, they just they were, you know, it’s almost like, you know, I call it cellular senescence, or cellular dementia, you know, they forgot that these are not, these are your enemies, you know, these are not things that you want to, you know, nurture and grow, but they don’t recognize that. So they’re like, Oh, our job is to secrete growth factors, we want to help everything to grow. And that’s where the problem comes. That’s why I’m so passionate about using appropriate stem cell types so that you minimize any potential harmful effects. Because as we get older, unfortunately, even our stem cells get older and get more sluggish and lose some marbles.
Robert Lufkin 26:40
Okay, so to recap so far, then we’ll take embryonic stem cells, we’ll set those aside because of risks for teratomas. And, and they’re not not available in the United States are not used without some sort of study, because of the risks associated with them. And outside the US, who knows, you know, it can be the Wild West, but at least in the US, we don’t we don’t use those. So, so we’ll set the embryonic stem cells aside because of those, those issues with them. And now we’re talking about mesenchymal stem cells, which can either be from an adult, if I understand you correctly, or from the umbilical cord, right? Or from biblical tissue. And, and for those there, there are some disadvantages with the adult forms because they’re, they’re further down the differentiation, like you say, in certain factors can be problematic. So ideally, what we want is not embryonic stem cells, not adult mesenchymal stem cells, but ideally, umbilical cord stem cells for for a number of reasons or umbilical tissue stem cells, correct?
Joy Kong 27:48
Yeah, I think the stem cell field is still evolving, you know, possibly we can find, you know, better tools. But I think right now, the best tool is the, the stem cell. So mesenchymal stem cells is one main major type, there’s still other kinds of stem cells, you know, like endothelial progenitor cells, and the amount of poetic stem progenitor cells. All these are important, they all work together. That’s why when I use a product, I include different stem cell types, because I know they work synergistically together, you know, I don’t want to fall back into the trap of this very simplest is thinking that oh, one cell type is going to solve all the problems. If you talk with stem cell scientists, or all around the world, they will tell you, there’s no one cell type. That’s good for every disease. Every condition, there’s just life is not that simple. Because all these cells, they work together. So I want to bring all the different cell types knowing that they work together in nature. So I’m going to give it into the human body. So they will work work it out. They will work together. So yes, when you get cells from the birth tissue, which includes the umbilical cord, and placenta, these cells it’s really fascinating because they’re kind of in between embryonic stem cells, and the stem cells even in the baby, because the baby stem cells are still considered adult stem cells, because they are a fully formed human and in the, in the embryo, logical terms, and they’re an adult, you know, so they’re stem cells, an adult stem cell, but when you look at the birth tissue, because they were sequestered, they were kind of caught up in the formation. So early in the embryogenesis, when the baby was formed. So there, they still kept some of the characteristics of the embryonic stem cells, you can look at that you can you can detect that through looking at surface receptors. So a lot of the surface receptors that were present in embryonic stem cells are still present in the birth tissue derived stem cells, but they’re lost in the baby stem cells, so they’re kind of in between, but they don’t have teratoma risks. So they can’t form this uncontrolled bowl of a ball of tumor. So they kind of have the best of both worlds right now and because they Have there so early on, and also because you know, you know, at least from what a lot of people use, and what I use is that there’s a lot of, unless you’re using umbilical cord blood cells, but if you use umbilical cord tissue cells or a lot of mesenchymal stem cells, they have the ability to modulate the immune system. So even if you can, even if you give a transplant, you know, tissue transplant of the cells to a person that’s completely unmatched that you haven’t tested a blood types or, or any other markers, you completely unmatched, it’s extremely safe. It’s almost, you know, extremely, extremely low chance of some kind of reaction. Does it happen? Yes, it can’t. But very rare. But, you know, good luck was trying to do a bone marrow transplant without matching, right, because there’s even if this perfectly matched bone marrow transplant, there’s still a rejection rate. So that shows you how complex the human body is. Because just because we understand some of the major surface markers doesn’t mean we understand all the potential surface markers, right? So we’re testing for some of the major ones, we think, okay, we’re matching these ones, and then they’re going to be a match that they’re not going to reject. No, they’re still a rejection rate. But if you put a younger cell, even though, it’s probably has all kinds of surface markers, if when it sells matures, it can form all these different surface markers. But because we’re so young, they may not form it, because they work with the the host, they work with a new body, this is why research have shown over 60% of women F have actually have Y chromosomes in their body. And this is fascinating, right, there’s no chance of it unless we got it from a male. And we can get it from either carrying a male baby or having a male sibling, that who may have died that we didn’t know about, right, so that in utero, then there’s some kind of genetic, you know, the cell Exchange, or from male female intercourse. So So you know, that there is a potential of transferring of this genetic material. So that’s actually part of human nature. And if you look at how many women actually carry around, walk around with Y chromosomes that, you know, this, you know, early, you know, kind of, you know, settling down off cells from another human being is actually a commonplace occurrence. So, that’s pretty excited to give you kind of a new perspective on, you know, you know, helps you to understand, you know, a lot of people are scared. Oh, you know, I don’t want to have other people’s DNA in my body. But, you know, what is actually part of the human condition? It just part of the way humans have always been you carry around some other people’s DNA, and you?
Robert Lufkin 32:43
Oh, yeah, we have so much to learn in that. And even the fascinating work on exchanging DNA between species, as you know, as bacteria, you know, get together and they trade resistance across species and everything, and I’m sure it happens, like you say, with higher animals all the way up to us. Yes, yeah. So before we before we leave the high level view of stem cells, I have one quick question. And another another, we hear a lot in the news, just kind of definitions. We hear a lot about exosomes, maybe you could just take a moment. And what’s the difference between a stem cell and the exosomes? And what are the values of each of those and trade offs of using those?
Joy Kong 33:21
Yeah, stem cells communicate with the world, you know, with the human body in a variety of ways. And exosomes is one major way, not the full way, because stem cells can secrete growth factors that they don’t put into the exosomes, but a lot of their messages are included in this tiny little package there, you know, they’re kind of nanoparticles, very, very tiny. So they will put their messages into this package, and then they will burn it off and then send it to you know, these little, you know, nanoparticles that will circulate in the body and get to, you know, you know, and start to interact with your body and
Joy Kong 33:57
then produce certain effects. But, you know, one thing to realize is that these are secretion particles, so they don’t contain DNA, they do have micro RNA that that can interact with the DNA, but they don’t have DNA to respond to the environment. So the cell contains DNA and the cells is that is that like, the mothership is producing these little particles sending all these messages. So what some people will have done partially from, you know, making things maybe simpler, or to avoid the having to deal with FDA restrictions on cellular therapy, they decided to just collect these particles, and then they will grow, you know, they can either concentrate it by centrifuge from maybe embryonic embryonic amniotic fluid, or they can get some mesenchymal stem cells and grow them in culture, and the cells will just keep spewing out these particles So as somewhat of a blind environment, right, so you can nurture them help them grow. But it’s a blind secretion of these molecules that’s supposed to work with your body. So do they contain a lot of growth factors? Yes, they do. Do they produce beneficial effects? Yes, they do. But limitation is they’re short lasting. So they’re good, they get broken down very quickly in the body, you know, within days, you know, that they’re, they’re very highly degradable. But they do send out all these growth factors and micro RNA that can produce some downstream effects, which is wonderful, because micro RNA can actually interact with the DNA and help change methylation patterns and actually help repair the DNA. So in general, the the effect lasts for about maybe two to three months, then people have to do it again, because you just got one wave of signals, it can promote some kind of repair, but then, you know, you run out of your tools, right? So then you need another treatment, where stem cells, when you can, you know, imagine is almost like putting into your body, a pharmacy, so they can they and the pharmacy is smart, because whatever your body needs, so this is not growing in a culture, you know, on the big that this is in the human body, and actually, censoring sensing, what your body is condition is, what’s the inflammation level where the inflammation is. So first of all, you can get to the areas of inflammation, the cells will be attracted to that area, and work on that specific location. And then depending on what that location needs, the cells will secrete relevant exosomes and may not put, you know, the same packages in package of information into you know, when you have the cells, knowing the local environment, they will secrete a different set of signals. And it’s a lot more targeted response, you know, a lot of targeted kind of therapy. And the cells generally live in the body for about three months. So they don’t live forever. Yes, some do stay. That’s why, you know, we have the micro Chimera exam. So you know that we have other people’s DNA in our body, but generally, probably only one to 2%, you know, the most 5% of the cells actually stay, but in most of them will die. You know, like any cells that you’ve activated, there’s a finite lifespan. So in general, they live for about three months. But during those three months, they were produced countless exosomes, right? Not only they can expand in member they can grow, but they can keep producing these exosomes, which in a very targeted manner. So that’s why I always prefer stem cells. And another problem with exosomes is is that exosomes doesn’t have intelligence, of responding to the environment on its own. It’s already a set number of messages. The stem cells when it gets to environment can sense Oh, this is not a time for me to secrete growth factors, I need to secrete something else to tell the cells to die, right? If the cells are abnormal, dysfunctional, senescent, or cancerous, then I secrete different signals to tell the cells to die. But the exosomes tells everybody to grow up because that’s, you know, they were grown blindly in the vat. And then they just tell you know, so if you do have an existing tumor, or some kind of precancerous changes, there is a potential for this to enhance the growth so that there’s a risk factor. So I almost never, you know, almost never give people exosomes alone, because of that concern, you know, I want to have intelligence the cells to back it up.
Robert Lufkin 38:42
Okay, yeah, so, so the, ideally, the mesenchymal stem cells will produce their own exosomes once they’re in your body, and that’s the natural thing they do. And by by just getting exosomes, you, you sort of you’ve removed the intelligence of the cell and the ability to respond and everything. So I see that as a as a, as a trade off there that, that we might not want to make. But so you’re the you’re the founder and medical director of the Thea center for Regenerative Medicine. And so you actually treat patients with with this type of technology, these this type of these types of cells. I’m wondering, for, for what sort of patients how do you how as a patient, how are there certain conditions that would benefit from stem cells? Are there certain lab tests that people should take obviously, you know, for longevity, that’s something we’d all like, you know, what do you what do you look at in patients I guess first flip diseases, I guess, would you that are that would benefit from stem cells,
Joy Kong 39:54
right? Of course, I can’t you know, I can’t make that statement. Okay. I can’t make any claims but Right,
right? I encounter that every day, of course in the clinic, because when people call me say, Doctor, I have this and this can sometimes help me. So the way I answer it, because, you know, the only FDA indication is blood disorders, you know, when you can give stem cells to reconstitute the blood, and that is the only FDA indication. So when everything that’s outside of that, what I look at is research studies, has there been evidence showing benefit? So I will, I will analyze with patients, I will say, you know, here, yes, okay, you have COPD, or you have end stage renal disease, or you have psoriasis? Okay, let’s look at what research have shown. So this is where, you know, my, my whole library of studies, why is so helpful and so powerful? Because whatever questions they have, if somebody somewhere in the world has studied it and published it, then I can utilize that data, I can tell the person Yes, you know, there has been some benefits. And we can, you know, I think there may be a good chance that this will help you. But there are a lot of people who suffer from more obscure conditions that no one has studied. And then what I do is that I enter law analyze the pathophysiology of the condition. So how did you even get the condition in the first place? Is it Is there some kind of immune dysregulation? Is there inflammation, that’s part of the picture, and even genetic problems, I can’t fix genetic problems per se, you know, the gene and the gene level, but a lot of genetic diseases is not really the, the problem with the gene that’s causing the disease is the downstream effects, right, that’s causing tissue damage, and that’s how you manifest with the disease. So if the tissue damage is in place, and there probably are inflammation, that’s part of the picture and immune dysregulation, then at that level, I can bring the stem cells in and help them. So in that sense, it’s a broad range of application, I can assist the body to fix to fix the inflammatory condition and to modulate the immune system to make it a more reparative or
regenerative in nature. So I have in my clinic seen great results in all kinds of conditions. So I mentioned COPD, it’s pretty incredible. I mean, that’s the first place the cells go when you when you put into intravenously, you know it goes to the heart and pump into the lungs, you have a lot of inflammation, a lot of problem the lungs, because of mesenchymal stem cells has these anti fibrotic property so it can break down scar tissue. And that is, you know, powerful, right, the only thing we have these days are steroids. And, and these are so regenitive and the side effects. I used to I was telling patients as if stem cell therapy has been 1% of this kind of side effects that you see on a list of any medications, it’s going to be shut down, you know, the side effect profile has, it’s been an incredible because we’re dealing with life here, you know, as human human is life compatible. So So COPD, has been great. I’ve, you know, reverse somebody with liver cirrhosis and stage that was somebody that was in hospice, you know, it was on the brink of death. And people with diabetes with high blood pressure, and with severe autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, severe psoriasis, people who have you know, all kinds of orthopedic issues, any kind of, you know, joint, you know, tendon injuries and and impairments and then a lot of neurological conditions, then the neurological conditions would take longer, and is a little bit more unpredictable. But I’ve definitely seen good results for people with dementia, with stroke with ALS, and with post traumatic, the TBI traumatic brain injury, and also Parkinson’s and Ms. So I’ve definitely seen people benefiting from these. And I also do treat a lot of kids who have autism because we had such great success with autistic kids. So the Autistic community is very, you know, they, they they’re very tight knit and they they talk to each other. So I have a lot of autistic kids who come to my clinic. And, and I’ve
Joy Kong 44:31
you also have Lyme disease patients because we had great results treating Lyme disease and you know how devastating it is and Lyme disease is a complex so you need to you know, on one hand, kill the organism. And then you need to boost your own immune system. So you can actually maintain that, you know, healthy state. So stem cells, we have seen people who had raised lesions from Lyme disease to the point where within a couple of months As the brain lesions were gone, that was shown on MRI, which was pretty incredible. And that’s correlated with clinical incredible clinical improvement. So yeah, so very broad range
Robert Lufkin 45:12
of conditions. Yeah, the ability to influence inflammation, like you say, in fibrosis, which is at the root of
so many chronic diseases, you know, all the ones you’ve mentioned, and more, that is such a powerful
Joy Kong 45:26
fibrosis, which reminded me of that, that, you know, the erectile dysfunction, you know, yeah, male, you know, the penile, and then peroneus, which is, you know, inflammatory plaque formation, you know, that’s very easily reversed. You know, so people have coverage of this penis all of a sudden, you know, after one treatment is all straightened up, right? So it’s really, it’s really great to see the power of the cells have,
Robert Lufkin 45:49
well, what about, like you say, inflammation, fibrosis, those are all all the Chronic Disease findings from for longevity? So if a patient comes in for longevity, what sort of biomarkers do you follow? Are there any, any things you can use to see the results with, you know, with a longevity patient or with an aging, so
Joy Kong 46:09
yeah, actually, half of my patient population, our longevity, patience. So these people have already
taken great responsibility for their health, eating healthy exercise, and their, you know, their high functioning, they just want to stay on top of things, you know, they don’t want to decline, right, we all have finite lifespan. But what we want is, is like the candle, we think of how we want to live, it’s like the you know, you have a long candle, it burns bright and bright and bright until the very last breath, and then poof, it’s gone. And that’s how, you know, ideally, how we live our life. Right? Like that candle. So so that’s what patients came to me for. And so the markers that you can follow, I mean, there’s a lot of debate on what really are the best markers, but what I found are helpful, are, you know, CRP is helpful. So high sensitivity, CRP, and then the lipid panel actually tends to show a lot of improvement in their, you know, cholesterol in there. Yeah, the cholesterol markers, and, you know, the lipid markers, and people’s you know, blood sugar, you know, that can help improve a when sea levels. So, other ones are a little bit, you know, that’s a little bit more individualized. No, I have also looked at hormone levels, and, and, and some other you know, a few other markers. But But mostly, I would look at those and blood pressure, you know, that’s one indication as well, you know, showing improvements, you know, there are people have had essential hypertension, and with within a couple of weeks of stem cell treatment, you know, the blood pressure point will drop 10 to 15%. So that’s pretty, pretty cool. Yeah.
Robert Lufkin 47:57
Wow. Wow. So I assume about the nature of your practice that patients have to be that you don’t have a telemed telemedicine component to it. That they have to be be able to travel to California to, to work with you. Is that correct?
Joy Kong 48:14
Yeah. So I do have a medical license in Florida and Colorado as well. But right now, I’m just focusing on on on California, but I do plan to set up, you know, new clinics and other locations. And also, I’m a medical director of a mobile IV company. So we’re going to bring this to a lot of places. But right now, yes, people do fly from all over the country, and then the world to come see me. And the funny thing is, you know, I chuckle at this, because people, the only people will complain that I’m too far are the people who are in Los Angeles, because I’m in a particular location in LA LA is so huge and sprawling. So wherever, wherever I am, someone has been, like complaint that I’m too far, but nobody from other states or other countries ever said you too far.
Robert Lufkin 49:10
Question patients come in. Is any of this covered by insurance? Obviously, it depends on the plan and everything. But in general, should patients be expected to pay for this out of pocket? Or is it kind of a mixture of different things? Yeah,
Joy Kong 49:22
I would say, you know, unless you’re, you know, you have some rare insurance coverage. I’ve seen people who have, you know, some really high end insurance plans that are willing to cover most of them. No, they because they don’t consider this FDA approved. And this is tissue transplantation. And they they usually won’t go for it. Yeah, we can.
Robert Lufkin 49:47
To be clear the technology that you’re using for mesenchymal stem cells, I mean, it is FDA approved, but it’s this is an off label use for other indications correct or actually
Joy Kong 50:00
We know this is a good point, because you know, because this is where a lot of people are confused, and they’re not sure is this legal? You know, can we do this. So whether or not is legal depends on what category, the stem cells that you’re using falls under. So the FDA decided, You know what, when people start doing a lot of stem cells, FDA decided that they’re going to have some kind of guidelines. And they decided that if you get the cells from the human body, whether from adult or from a, you know, first tissue, if you start to manipulate it by adding chemicals, using enzymes that digest certain connective tissue, or you start to grow them into large numbers, then you’re potentially making a drug because you’re changing the characteristics off these cells. And so if you do that, then you will have to get an IND investigational new drug application, so you have to study, you know, you have to put all your patients under a clinical study, otherwise, your is not legal to just give it to people. But if you don’t manipulate in any way, that falls under a whole other category called Section 361. So if your 361 product, which is what we use in our, in our clinic, because we extract the cells, mechanically from the umbilical cord, and other tissues that we utilize, and then we don’t do anything, except that we, you know, nurture them, and then you know, put them in the right, you know, freezing process. And then we you know, and then they’re in this, you know, ultra low temperature, they’re kind of frozen and animation, until they’re thought out and given to patients. So basically, we didn’t manipulate the cells in any way. And that the FDA says it falls under 361. And you can give it to people as tissue transplant. So it’s not a drop, just like, you know, when you do a liver transplantation, right, you’re not in the liver is not a drug. So you’re a doctor, you’re allowed to do liver transplant. And same thing as blood, you know, this is not, you know, no one manufactures blood, we just, you know, as doctors, this is a medical treatment, we can give the blood from one person to another. So same same logic.
Robert Lufkin 52:15
I see, I see. Oh, that makes sense, then. And then for just ballpark figures, how much how much do people pay for this, and just just a general range, we, we had some, some people are doing gene therapy with Gene transplants, and, and the procedure was $100,000. And I know drug costs can be all over the place, but just to give people a sense of what is what is the range for this typically.
Joy Kong 52:40
So it does vary quite a bit. And in the US also. But if you a lot of people go overseas, the general figure I hear is about you know, $25,000. So somewhere, you know, like kind of their you know, that, you know, can go up over 30,000. But that’s kind of what you can expect by going overseas. And the US, you know, so in our clinic, I tried to be, you know, very reasonable. So our range, it really depends on person’s body weight, their age, and their health condition. So those three factors that determines the dosage and dosage determines the cost, but in general, I my clinics between 7015 $1,000. So yeah, most people
Robert Lufkin 53:23
you also are an expert in actually making making the preparation of the of the stem cells as well through
through Chara, so you have expertise in that area, as well as in addition,
Joy Kong 53:38
I don’t I don’t claim expertise, I’ve read a lot of scientific articles, you know, I do work with amazing scientists who know how to work with the cells, what I bring in is kind of this overall greater philosophical understanding of how different cell types in different tissues, how they work, and how they may work together. So I designed my product in the sense I picked different tissues, and to bring the different compartments cells from different compartments into one. Because if you look at what people use in the country, they pick one compartment. And they stay with that they say either umbilical cord blood when vocal cord tissue, and they they they all say that, you know they have the best product, but I’ve used all of them. So I know that yes. For some circumstances, this, you know, either cord blood or tissue is the best, but not for everybody. So I know there’s benefit of each and because I know how the cells can work with each other how they actually enhance each other’s function. That’s why I want to bring them all together. So what I always say is, there’s a reason that God created all these stem cells, right? So no humans are capable of making a single cell you know, we’re not capable of doing it. So somebody some some intelligence created the cells, and why do they have all these different stem cells? Right And who am I to pick Oh, mesenchymal stem cells is great. So that’s That’s what I’m gonna give you who I meant to do that I, you know, I’m not gonna play god, I’m gonna give give you everything that God has created. And then, and then I’ll let them work it out.
Robert Lufkin 55:13
I mentioned in the introduction, that you’re also the founder and president of the American Academy of integrated cell therapy, where you’re involved in education, and teaching other other physicians as well about who want to learn about stem cell therapy. And can is that aimed at patients also for that? Or is that mainly more physician level training? Yeah, it’s
Joy Kong 55:35
really for doctors, but you can also get a lot of great information on the website is AIC t.org. Because I have some research excerpts, I have some case studies, that people can actually look at the different conditions that have, you know, people have seen great response in, but the training course, which is a six hour online training course, I used to teach, you know, it’s a full day course, I may, I may start again, you know, actually teaching it in person, but it was very, very labor intensive. So I put it online to make it very accessible wherever the doctor is, because we have, you know, international doctors insist, you know, very difficult. So, so now they can, they can access it anywhere, and they can rewind because they come in person, they can’t rewind, right? If you didn’t pay attention, you know, you did you know, the boat has passed. So, yeah, that’s the, I want people to really know what they’re doing and feel confident. I’ll tell you, it’s what’s funny was when I was teaching the class in person, I was just focusing on the lectures. So I didn’t know what the doctors response was, but my staff was telling me, they said, you know, the doctors were making these noises, they were like, Whoa, wow. And so they were like, because light bulbs started going go off, because I started talking about different diseases, and you know, different conditions and how research have shown benefits, all of a sudden, they probably are thinking about, you know, this patient, that patient Oh, my goodness, I can’t I didn’t know stem cells may help this too. So I mean, you know, how nice to know that you have this tool, right? You can help people that you haven’t succeeded at helping it
Robert Lufkin 57:16
it’s great that you’re you’re giving back not only to the patients but also to help other physicians to learn
about this and and disseminate the technology as well. In the last last couple of minutes, we always like to ask our experts like yourself being an expert in this field about what knowing what you know about regenerative medicine and health in general, what choices do you make if you don’t mind sharing in your own lifestyle as far as you know, diet, health, anything like that exercise or stem cell treatments, I mean, I have to say you look about 21 years
Joy Kong 58:01
I love talking by my age because I’m 50 I do feel 25 flow I and I want to look the same way when I’m 75 and this is the first time in history that is possible. And I want to show everybody is possible we’re here we actually have the tools so I’d be happy to share so I definitely you know I practice what I preach because I think I just have this respect for this incredible that’s you know gift which is our human body right so we were more than our body but this is the body that we’re been given I want to respect it so then I don’t put poison my body which is all those processed you know food and you know things that that has a lot of chemicals and additives. So I try to eat very healthy I eat organic whenever possible. And and I try not to eat you know a high carb diet you know once in a while high carb it’s it’s okay you know I’m not really dogmatic about it but I generally try to reduce it you know, I focus on you know, a lot of vegetables and fruits and and lean protein so that’s kind of the diet I call it anti inflammatory diet, you know that that’s where I want to focus on and then exercise I do exercise every day. I love Pilates. It’s actually lagree Fitness. And it’s a it’s a has a little bit more cardio component that’s it’s more fast paced, kind of form of you know, pilates, but I love doing that and then you know, I go to Zumba dance, you know, maybe two to three times a week because you get the music it’s good for the soul. You know, you got camaraderie, right? You’re dancing around but you’re feeling the joy of having this body and being able to move in and express yourself. So you know, that aside, I think detoxification is very important. So I tell everybody, you know, I want you to eat, you know, everybody who comes to me for stem cell treatment, eat an anti inflammatory diet, move your body, and then detox one of the best I think that the best detox method is infrared sauna or other sauna. But Infrared Saunas fantastic. And then you can get rid of a lot of the organic, you know, kind of toxins and also heavy metal, you get a lot of things sweated out, you know, your skin is a huge detox organ. So I do that, at least two to three times a week,
Robert Lufkin 1:00:19
two to three times a week. Okay, like for an hour? Is that your, your dose?
Joy Kong 1:00:23
for that? 40 minutes? Yeah. And then I have an infrared sauna in my clinic. Actually, I want to, you know, I want people to, you know, here it is. And then, on top of that, I, I love stem cell treatment, I think it has has a lot to do with how youthful I look. Because for the last five years, I’ve been doing it stem cells every three months. So like clockwork, actually, after we finish, I’m doing my next stem cell IV infusions super excited. What it has done is more than what I anticipated, because I really did it, because I saw how many people benefit from it, you know, because they have diseases, and I didn’t have any problems. But I want to be vital, I want to be you know, vibrant. So I started doing it really because I read the science, I knew how they work, you know, getting rid of senescence cells and improve the immune system. I wasn’t going in saying hey, I want to look young forever. That wasn’t it wasn’t part of my goal. I just want it to be optimized. And then people were commenting, hey, what have you been doing, you’ve been looking younger. So I realized what happens is that there are changes both internally and on the skill level that you know skin is not you know, you can’t achieve useful Look, just by putting creams and doing these micro needling you know, that’s not enough because all your muscles underneath your skin, you know, fat and the ligaments, everything is start to sag and lose their their vitality. So if you don’t address everything from the inside out, you’re gonna have super smooth skin, but they’re all hanging, right. So that’s not what you want. So what I realized is that I was cleaning myself up or rejuvenating myself up from the Oregon from the inside level. And my skin is just a manifestation of what’s going on inside. So I want people to take a look at their skin. And realize that when you think you’re getting older, that you are looking at your face and the wrinkles and how you know things are not what they were. But think of that in your organs, your heart is wrinkling up your your livers wrinkling up, everything is drooping and, and you know, your skin is just a manifestation. So I want to give people a tool to rejuvenate from the inside out. And so definitely, you know, you you are revitalizing all your tissue, and in your brain and your muscles, you know, from from the inside. That’s why I’ve been giving this lecture about stem cell therapy as an anti aging tool, they have people have studied what happens after stem cell infusion looking at acetylcholine levels in the brain, which is really crucial and and in the muscles, and look at their growth factor levels and inflammation markers when they did a stem cell transplant. These older animals, all of a sudden, all these markers went back to the younger level is powerful evidence that this is not you know, not only that they’re acting younger, they’re first better their spine is straight, or you know, like so there’s both the physical manifestation and the laboratory, you know, confirmation. So, so that’s why I do it consistently, every three months. And I tell people you should do you know, if you want to kind of, you know, slow down or, you know, almost stopping the process aging, you might want to do it every six months. But if you want to be more aggressive, if you want to reverse it, maybe you want to do it every three months, because that’s what I’ve seen, you know, it’s a fun, like a site fact, site, you know, little, you know, factoid, that they looked at the brain of women who have given birth to two children to a kid, and then look their age equivalent of women who have not given birth, the women who have given birth, their brain is five months younger. And this is fascinating, right? So on average, their brain just got rejuvenated a little bit. So what I tell people is like, every three months, I have a little mini pregnancy and that I just got, you know, my brand has gone back five months. So if you keep doing that, right, every three months, you go back five months, hey, you know, you’re younger, younger.
Robert Lufkin 1:04:30
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. And on top
Joy Kong 1:04:32
of that, you know, I do check my hormone levels, you know, I, you know, I you know, if there’s, you know, because there’s a thought, you know, is your hormone level lower because you’re getting older or you’re getting older because your hormone levels are lower because you’re not all your cells are not receiving the right signals. So I do check my hormone levels and make sure that you know, I have the right you know, mostly, you know, thyroid, you know, estrogen progesterone, you know, those are the ones I’m focusing on. And for me help patients I focus a lot on testosterone, you know, testosterone low touchy for females. But that’s kind of what you know what I do in general. Yeah, I don’t take a whole lot of supplements and they get very exhausting.
Robert Lufkin 1:05:12
Yeah, it’s hard to manage all those. Well, how can people follow you on social media? We’ll put everything down in the show notes. But maybe you can just for people who are listening, you could just tell them that your website and the best way to stay in touch with you?
Joy Kong 1:05:26
Yeah, so probably the best way, our clinic website, so theocentric regenda. Medicine is Thea crm.com. So th e a crm.com. And, you know, people can reach our clinic, by Yeah, just go to the website. And, you know, send us a note, you know, our email info at CSC rm.com. And, and I, yeah, the social media, I do have a personal account, which is Tiger underlying off underlying Beijing. So it’s Tiger of aging, that’s kind of my personal is more for personal expression. But there’s one that’s more professionally oriented is stem cell, Dr. Joy, all one word. So that’s, yeah, that’s probably the best way but aict.org That’s a good resource for patients. Because it’s an educational website, I was able to discuss case studies. Whereas, you know, you as a physician, you probably know, you know, sometimes, you know, we have strange, strange rules that we can’t talk about cases, in some of some circumstances, which is really sad. And I’m really sad about it, actually. Because I, in a way, I risked my life to come to this country, you know, it’s not that bad. But I felt like, you know, I was going, I was go all in all in whatever it takes to get here. Because I could gain certain sense of freedom, I could say, what I believe is true, and this country’s not going to stop me. But the fact that I can’t post patient testimonials, even those from their own words, and that somehow is looked upon by the FDA as making claims is saddening to me. It’s against why I love this country. You know, like it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not what I you know, I love so much about this country for you know, I still love America, but I just I hope it gets better.
Robert Lufkin 1:07:20
Yeah, we’re definitely a work in progress. Thank you. Thank you so much joy for taking the time to spend spend with us today was great getting to know you better for the hour and hearing, hearing all about the amazing work you’re doing with with stem cells.
Joy Kong 1:07:39
You’re welcome. I really enjoyed speaking with you. Yeah, you’re a great host.
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