050-Patrick Samy : Biohacking Longevity with Personalized Nutrition

Diagnosed with prediabetes while following standard nutritional and medical advice, Patrick Samy decided that there must be a better path to healthy living. 

Please join Patrick Samy for his approach to health and longevity through personalized optimal nutrition.

Take away points: 

-“We use the concept of habit stacking, where you build up your routine and keep adding things that work for you – cold showers, low carb, vegan diet and things like that,” says Samy. “If you find an experiment that works for you, the nutritionist helps you to build it into your habits.”

-The approach combines data from wearables and other sources such as Oura, Whoop, Apple Watch, Garmin, Fitbit, Eight Sleep, Levels, 23andme, and more.

-Specific to longevity, Span contains a program for caloric restriction with optimal nutrition (CRON).

03:38 Diagnosed as prediabetes while following medical recommendations for nutrition

07:04 Integrating sleep data, CGM, and training data

11:34 Glucose spikes and variability as seen on continuous glucose monitor

14:20 Important of meal timing and fasting

16:34 Exercise and strength training

19:03 Gamification of health and lifestyle 

22:04 Use of genetic SNP data

25:54 Individualized health recommendations

29:34 Biological clocks to track aging- DNA methylation 

39:20 Personal lifestyle choices for optimal health


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#longevity  #wellness #antiaging #biologicalage #lifestylemedicine #younger #epigenetics #biohacking  #RobertLufkinMD #Patricksamy

Robert Lufkin 0:00

Robert Lufkin 0:04
welcome back to the health longevity secrets show with Dr. Robert Lufkin. Today I’m joined by the CEO of a revolutionary company that is biohacking longevity through personalized nutrition. Patrick Sammy is CEO of span health. He was previously at Microsoft and a researcher at Stanford University. He is now in remission from his diabetes. Please visit us at Robert Lumpkin md.com To see the full transcript and shownotes

thanks again for your support of this video podcast. We appreciate any reviews that you provide, which help us to spread the word of the work that we do. As a thanks for your review, we will send you a copy of one of our most popular guests book the path mastering the nine pillars of resilience and success by Dr. Steven siter off to receive it, just email a screenshot of your review along with your name and us address and include the title the path to male m a i l. At Robert Lufkin md.com, where we’re sorry that we can only ship to us addresses at this time. Now, enjoy this interview with Patrick salmon. Patrick Sammy, thank you so much for joining us on the health longevity Secret show.

Patrick Samy 1:30
Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it’s truly great to have you on our show. I’ve been I’ve been following span health for a long time. And I’m really excited about our audience learning about the great work you’re doing.

Robert Lufkin 1:48
Perhaps you could start off by telling telling us how how you came to be how you came to be doing this?

Patrick Samy 1:58
Yeah, it’s interesting question, I don’t think I’ve necessarily trained or studied this specific area of health, fitness, behavior change, or anything like that directly. But I think first and foremost, I’ve been an athlete for a long time in my life, I’ve been playing tennis, since a young age, I competed in high school in college. And and I pretty much almost stopped playing, I’ll just keep playing for fun, and not training for performance anymore. And at the same time, I’ve been that kid who grew up with a computer in the early 90s. And then with the internet and building stuff online. So you know, as an engineer, and as a result of working, I think at a desk for eight hours during the day, spending three years at Microsoft building computers, Computer Products, software products for Skype. You know, I think my lifestyle had dramatically changed, I didn’t pay attention to how my health was impacted. And it was very obvious when he did the blood test when I was 28. So after three years there, that a lot of my markers of long term health like triglyceride levels, sugar levels, fasting, were increasing. HDL was going down all these markers along to help or essentially not in a good place. They were not above the normal range and apart from sometimes, you know, by virtue of levels, but definitely in the pre diabetic range. I feel like that’s something that I’ve been able to put in remission. But I think what was interesting is, I thought it was doing the right thing. I was following public health recommendations, I was eating a balanced diet, from Whole Foods, no soda and snacks. If you work for a tech company today, that’s something that’s really hard to avoid, because they put it everywhere and the fridges and so on. But you know on the other side, I was also exercising three times a week for three hours. And it was surprising to me that I was moving this reaction which I had seen a lot of people in my family move into and get conditions like pre diabetes, full blown type two or cardiovascular illnesses when they’re 60s 70 in that age range and so I was actually trying to avoid that already and thinking I was doing the right thing obviously I was realizing I was physically fit from the outside and from the inside it was clear that I wasn’t the case. And I started looking into why that would be and though that there must be something counterintuitive that I’m doing with my diet sleep exercise that led me to this point. And so I got a lot of data to answer this question. I got this worrying that I’m still wearing the Apple Watch conditioners glucose monitor, were almost straight for six months even even though you know in theory I wasn’t diabetic yet. I was just trying to prevent was extremely useful tool for that purpose. Looking at my sleep with the ring was also extremely useful. And I did this for two months, myself, you know in getting all the low hanging foods there I think a lot of people who listen to, you know, people like you and people in this space, Dr. Peter G. Dr. Rhonda, Patrick, David Sinclair and Matthew Walker, who publish a lot of great content for free online these days would be able to get and so you’d be able to solve the 20% of things that are most obvious when you’ve got the right advice. But the 80% remaining, that gets you to, you know, I know exactly my long term trend and unload, I know that my blood sugar levels are stable, and I don’t have to worry about waking up 15 years down the line going for an HP one ch check and realizing that I’m over the range, which happens for unfortunately, a lot of people these days with, you know, some say, with the latest studies, 88% of the population, the US is metabolic metabolic, it has a metabolic dysfunction or disorder. And so bearing all of that in mind, I tried to do it myself, and I fail, I mean, I was able to identify something minor, like I need a lot of fiber to be able to control a spike from carbohydrates. So when I do have something that has a lot of starch, for example, pasta, potatoes, I need a lot more fiber than the average person probably to control that. Probably, you know, a genetic factor, I started looking at my twin 23andme data. And you could also associate some of the behaviors that I was observing to the gene variants that were in my DNA tests. And so it was obvious to me that I needed some help I went to my primary care physician with this data, I couldn’t get any support, really, I don’t think they’re equipped with the time to any any of the sort of the tools that allows them to look at the data to be able to do that. Unfortunately, today, there is you know, a lot of people who practice with functional approach in, in functional medicine in sports medicine and longevity medicine, I think this is something that’s increasingly becoming

larger segments of the population that’s interested in those steps, services. And so a lot of reasons why I decided to reach out to two of my friends who are a longevity specialist, an MD, and a health coach who really practicing this way. And they’ve been able to help me unlock this value that that I thought was behind the data. And in the end, I think I was right, but I was not able to unlock this value by myself. What we did is we had a spreadsheet that we were updating every week with the sleep data from the ring with the training data from the watch with the CGM data on my metabolic responses to foods and even exercise. And we will look at it on a weekly basis and check in and figure out what is the next step? What is the one thing we can change to drive one of the markers that seems to be the the most the best, you know, area of improvement that we almost diagnose? And how do we work on this. And so we did this for six months. And overall, you know, a lot of changes a lot of positive habits picked up from doing this dramatically improved my mental clarity, my energy levels. My you know, I’ve been playing tennis for 25 years by that point. And I’ve never measured my recovery and anything related to how my fitness or health is impacting my performance. But I started doing that. And it was really impressive to see that I was able to play for an hour and didn’t feel exhausted at the end. So my number of mistakes I would make playing in the last 15 minutes completely was completely lowered by this ability to play at the same capacity. And so pushing different aspects of your doing halfway zone to training and pushing my anaerobic respiration. And all these things allowed me to get into that stage. Unfortunately, with COVID, I’ve lost some of this and I’m rebuilding it now. I’ve just started playing again when the restrictions were lifted here, month and a half ago, and I saw that that was I lost some of it here. I’m trying to rebuild that. The other aspect was also on. You know, the data we found on the CGM and heart rate variability, and so my glucose levels were extremely variable at night, I had ups and downs that weren’t explainable. When Adam and Rachel looked at this data, the only thing we know is that because variability is probably not a good idea in the long term. If you have that every night for you know, 2025 years, it’s probably going to build up some sort of insulin resistance. Insulin was resistance in long way. You probably don’t want that. And what we also expect when we saw this on healthy individuals is a curve that is naturally smooth that goes down, probably when you’re in deep sleep at the lowest and then goes back up again in the morning. And I did not have that. So they looked at the variability and how it was correlated with the amount of time I spent fasting after dinner every night. And there was a clear correlation. So when I spend you know, four to five hours fasting, so had dinner and left enough time before I went to bed, I went to bed with fasting blood sugar numbers, as opposed to having a spike of 10 points and going to bed with your numbers weren’t back to fasting levels already, and the variability was increased. And so for two to three weeks, we did this experiment of eating as close to 6pm as possible, which left four and a half to five hours of fasting beaming. And the first three to four days, we saw that your lower variability like we expected, but after the five,

Robert Lufkin 10:33
I’m sorry to interrupt it. So you fasted after dinner. But then until the next morning, right, or you you had a late night snack? So would it be like 12 hours of fasting or?

Patrick Samy 10:47
Yeah, I think pretty much in that range. Yeah. So I see how much time I fasted in the evening, and therefore, the overall amount of fasting was probably in the 12 hour range. Okay, yeah, he was really leaving enough time for my blood sugar levels to get back to baseline before going to bed. And not doing that seems to be correlated with the very, and so we thought, okay, that’s a correlation, we don’t know if extending the time will actually allow you to control that is the cause of the issue. And so what we ended up doing is consistently for two weeks, eating as close to 6pm as possible, and looking at the very top again. And what was obvious after day five, like I said before, is the very, it started to reduce up to the point where the curve was getting smoother by the day. And I think it dates and not even I had that natural curve you expect for a healthy individual. So no more, you know, random spikes in the middle of the night that nobody could explain. And I kept doing this for three months, the effect was that by eating exactly the same thing, and exercising exactly the same way my blood sugar levels were going down. And so I was probably eating way too late for someone who has a slow metabolism, which, again, you know, we started looking at 23andme data, I have all the gene variants for a slow metabolism followed of compounds found in drinks and foods, liquids, caffeine, and all these things. And so, you know that we barely scratched the surface in terms of what we know, there, you know, genetics and epigenetics and all these things. But that was enough to really understand the behavior that we expected for my body, and should be able to respond to it with a change and intervention that led to an improvement. And ultimately, I found other ways to mitigate that now. So if I do have a late dinner that had the more carbs and expect a normal meal, going for work after allows me to push this sugar back in the rest of muscles and actually use it before going to bed, which seems to have the same effect or similar effect, at least on the variability at night. And it’s also something that is seen improved. So I can maybe tolerate more than before, maybe I had some mild insulin resistance at the time. And during, so eating later now, maybe three hours, four hours from going to bed doesn’t create that variability. So I wonder if you know, by doing this for enough time, I’ve actually restored some sensitivity here, went back to normal balance of insulin and glucose levels. So that was the main discovery. A lot of other things like heart rate variability to 30 hours on average, to go back to baseline. Every time it was exercising in the morning, and I was exercising fasted, we didn’t know if that was the reason. But it went back normal in 1215 17 hours max, so half the time on average. And we thought it’s extremely strange that you see such a difference. And so I ended up doing it. And then we started looking at the sleep data, because we didn’t know why that was the case. And so the hypothesis were was if you decide too late, you sleep badly in a nice bowling ball effect. And overall, you know, you’re not recovering as fast as you should. And yeah, and it was completely correlated to the amount of time I was actually spending during the day not necessarily extremely active. Not sure if that’s again related to swing metabolism, but in my case, exercising in the first part of the day before 2pm and fasted leads to the the best, you know, the least amount of detriment on sleep at least in evening and sleep exercise too late during the day. I tend to sleep a lot worse and have you know, less recovery sleep specifically and a lot more interruptions during sleep. Oh, interesting.

Robert Lufkin 14:43
So do you in vet your current plan now for your your activity for intermittent feeding? You eat your dinner and then and then no, don’t eat until the next day and when do you have your first meal the next day? You

Patrick Samy 15:00
I don’t share my first meal around 1pm For me, 12 to 1pm. So it’s still very extended. These days I experimented with, you know, going back to just three meals a day. It’s not something that I naturally find, easy to do. And so I don’t want to go too much against by forcing the experiment, I did evolve to three weeks, I couldn’t find any benefits. And I couldn’t find that, you know, I really liked it. So I went back to normal there. So two meals a day. And I try and shoot I try and to have the same foods every time I changed something else. But now I experiment a lot with different exercise patterns, trying to do heart free zone to training strength lifting. And these kind of things and see what is the impact on other markers as well?

Robert Lufkin 15:52
Yeah, I’m I love the the mission statement or what you’re doing an integrated nutrition platform for biohacking longevity, that that’s beautiful. So in addition to the nutrition Do you it sounds like you integrate exercise into it, as well as the coaching on different methods of exercising, stress, endurance, aerobic, anaerobic, that kind of thing as well.

Patrick Samy 16:18
Exactly all of these things plus sleep. I think one of the deep beliefs we have in the gym is that all these things need to be considered together, because it’s almost as if it’s all the inputs that we can directly control. And so sleep hygiene and the ability to tune the timing of diet and exercise based on your sleep. The type of exercise, the type of dietary pattern is really important to maintain good level of health or keep optimizing, which is a lot of the things that our users are interested in is, how do I unlock the next step. And so based on my experience, we defined what span would be. And we realized that a lot of people who own those devices today are even more curious and interested in optimizing their health. And so that’s that’s pretty much what we do today, we’ve got this mobile platform where you can on the app, connect to all your Apple Watch, you’re wearing your levels, CGM, or any other CGM on the market, Garmin, and so on. And when basically, your coach will look at this data will on the first call, define your goals, take a bit of history and understand what is the thing you want to reach internally in the team, they’ll discuss that with our MD specializes in sports medicine, or longevity medicine, and they look at the data in correlation with your activity during the day, whether it’s exercise, what you’re eating, and all these things. And they’ll set up a report on diet sleep and exercise with based on their intuition and the scientific literature and a library of experiments, a list of the interventions that we suggest probably up to you know, five for each area, and a specific goal. So where the, you know, the area of improvement could be not the low hanging fruit, but you know, maybe your resting heart rate is a bit high for your age. And that’s something that you know, you want to improve all your fitness, so it correlates with your goal. So we’re going to try to bring that to maybe a 5% deficit every month. It’s not taking things too quickly. But we’re really looking at the progress. And then obviously, if that’s the goal, we’re probably focused on unless your sleep quality is really reduced, we’re probably focused on exercise. And so we’ll have a specific exercise experiment every two weeks that will allow us to test different patterns of exercise to see if you can really reach that deficit on a monthly basis. And then it’s almost like a game, you know, the app shows you your average heart rate last week, your average heart rate this week, and you see the progress, the relative progress here. So you know, you know, the end of the month, you need to get minus 10%. You see minus two 3% Every week, and you see that you’re kind of not the trend. And so people really like this approach of, you know, playing with that, almost as if they’re playing a game or sometimes, you know, a lot of our users are into data science or financials and so they use data for this, these business applications in their life all the time. And they just want to apply that that method to their health in some way. Oh,

Robert Lufkin 19:30
yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s beautiful. And you mentioned you did 23andme for yourself. Do the people in the your program also, do you use a genetic snip data for them as well?

Patrick Samy 19:44
Yeah, not all of them do it. But what we find is that maybe a third of our users right now have done any sort of DNA tests. And so 23andme is the company that we can integrate with on the platform. But on other products, we can just explore To the reports that those companies produce, we also sometimes run different tools on the complete the full genome sequence to be able to identify some gene variants associated with specific behaviors or responses in the scientific literature. So those tools are really useful to, you know, shine the light on the gene variants you have, and what those gene variants are telling us in terms of interventions or studies that have been done to, to decide or inform the decision making process. When we pick the the experiments

Robert Lufkin 20:34
of the of the 23andme or ancestry.com snips that they provide. What are the what are the most powerful ones or meaningful ones? Do you think for longevity and health or for people to look at in planning their choices?

Patrick Samy 20:53
So really good question. I should probably ask my co founder, Adam to share? Sure, sure. So many that’s he’s always, you know, thinking about, there’s a few. What I would say is the ones that are related to the risk of cardiovascular illnesses. And the ones that define any expected behavior in terms of metabolic pathways in, you know, either specific overall behavior or in specific cells, like, even like the bracket one or bracket two genes for breast cancer, it’s, in the end, just metabolic regulation of the uptake of glucose. And so I think those ones across the body are always, you know, correlated, you can always see that someone always has the same variance. I don’t know if they’re expressed. But no, it’s not often that they have only this one in this one. So they’re this clusters of people who have different groups of parents that apply to different different things and are important for different for preventative purposes, different interventions linked to them, essentially.

Robert Lufkin 22:09
Yeah, like the AP for a lot of people ask about that for Alzheimer’s and cardiovascular risk. And I think 23andme and ancestry, they both check that very easily. And

Unknown Speaker 22:20
yeah, they both have it. Yeah. And yeah, unfortunately, it’s not easy to then get a blood test and start monitoring that long run. Yet, hopefully, soon.

Robert Lufkin 22:31
Yeah, yeah. And it certainly is, it’s an evolving space, there are new new ideas all the time. And we have so much to learn about the genome and what all those things mean, you know, it’s a lot of information. But the teasing out the meaning is really, is really a challenge. Do you use any? Do you recommend any supplements for the people on your program? Is that part of your program?

Patrick Samy 23:03
Yep. So love people who work on I would say, actually, pretty much any type of experiment, usually, if it’s a specific dietary pattern, there will probably be some experiments linked to trying different supplements, for exercise to for sleep as well. So we have like things like melatonin, magnesium, glycine, all these things, and they also set up in an experiment. So you know, we’ll basically have the opportunity to test that with the will people and see if taking melatonin every single day at a specific time consistently will actually lead to an improvement in their sleep quality, it’s fantastic to be able to do that. And to get the data from the aura ring and just say, actually, there’s no difference. We can’t really do anything. But actually for some people it has and you know, your minutes and in such a specific one that I’m not sure if that’s something that be compensated by different habits. So Andrew Huberman says that one of the most important thing you can do is look at the sun in the morning, and look at light outside and look up and look at the sky. Because you can kind of set your your circadian rhythm and you start producing the monotony and at this point, and you release it at the end of the cycle almost. And so all these things I think, are super interesting, the magnesium as well. And you need to test that for different people and to understand in the future when we have maybe a number of people who’ve done this and we are able to look at ways, some of the markers that are allowing us to predict what someone how someone will react to these things. And so being more accurate in the USB stick and saying, Actually, you just joined we’ve got all your historical data on the Ura and we’ve got your 23andme so we can say you’re more likely to perform well on magnesium at 7pm Little bit than the average person who maybe wouldn’t get any benefit from that. So that’s the value would be. Yeah.

Robert Lufkin 25:06
And having all that ongoing live biometric data on them as well. You can perform, you can give them a supplement, see how they respond to it, that individual person, because everybody’s sort of different. We all have different complexities in our lives. And that’s beautiful, and then immediately see how they do with it. Yeah, that’s great. Are you looking? In addition to the health side, on the longevity side? Are you looking at any specific longevity supplements, like, you know, if Dave Sinclair with sirtuins and NAD, enhancers, or resveratrol or any of those,

Unknown Speaker 25:47
a lot of people who are members of span today, use NAD? Resveratrol? I don’t know, a couple of people on Metformin. I think it’s probably a third of our users right now who are on one of these really good purposes. And so I think, you know, we’ll definitely add them on the calls on the report is able to advise with that. I don’t think unfortunately, you know, we’ll see the results. And we’ll I don’t know if we’ll be able to observe something that will tell us is that NAD product, efficient today, is it leading to the variations, we expect to then infer that the longitudinal effect would be that you get the benefits? That’s, I think, gonna be a little bit difficult to say, but we’re definitely able to advise and say, you know, the, if you do take it, we we commend these brands, and we’ve, we don’t work with one particular brand. So we just look at all the ones you have available around.

Robert Lufkin 26:50
Sure. What they have, I wonder do you see in your patients any of the other more aggressive longevity drugs like rapamycin or any of the senolytics?

Unknown Speaker 27:03
Yeah, we’re gonna do questions.

Robert Lufkin 27:05
Mainly, Metformin, I guess is the most popular one.

Patrick Samy 27:08
Yeah, that for me, because I think it’s so accessible, it’s cheap. With rapamycin, I think a few people have mentioned it. And so at the beginning, we thought, maybe it would be useful to see if we can get the ability to prescribe it off label. We haven’t seen that pattern repeat for now, I think people who want it have found a way to get it. And so I don’t think it’s also the use case that most people want to focus on right now. So for us, I think it’s the key is that our users know that diet, sleep and exercise that holistic lifestyle management will get them where they need to get. And the goal is optimize health to the maximum potential, and then maintain that for as long as possible. So yeah, follow the trend monitor and make sure that if you reach a certain level, you can maintain that for as long as possible. And you live to 70 it at least with the same quality of life as your you have now at 40. And maybe after that you can expect some more natural aging.

Robert Lufkin 28:16
I love all the biomarkers and the biometrics you’re gathering to help you really customize and personalize the the longevity and the lifestyle plan for your patients. I’m wondering that there’s a new class of biomarkers coming out in the longevity space, that are biological clocks, that as opposed to our chronological clock, which we just measured by our birthday, you know, and how many years we’ve lived the biological clocks, things like epigenetic methylation clocks or glycan nation clocks, or, or do you use any of those to, to monitor response to your program with patients.

Patrick Samy 29:00
So we don’t require it because they’re quite expensive still. So we only know if the the members are interested in it, we definitely can recommend the brands. And if they’re looking to get them, that’s always a plus two, to have this kind of data and to be able to repeat it as well. I think it’s the kind of test that’s worth maybe doing once a year and looking at your long term progress on these and see if you can make any substantial changes. So yeah, we do have maybe 10% of users who have done one of these. I feel like the whole path clock is probably the most popular, but a lot of people have done like an age and all the tests like that. So I feel like glycation is also interesting. I feel like it’s also maybe more correlated to the things you can actually change with your lifestyle. And maybe the other one’s a bit more precise, but can also reflect a more an overall process of aging into glycation seems to be reflective of a lot of things that affect lifestyle.

Robert Lufkin 30:06
Yeah, biglycan age is a glycation clocks are nice the interesting we just interviewed the CEO and founder of a company for a Horvath style epigenetic methylation clock, and they’re releasing it now, a consumer version for under under $100. And, oh, I’ll put the put it in the show notes there, I’ll pass you the information. The interesting thing also, another person we we just spoke to, for our series, this Kara Fitzgerald as a who’s a physician, who just published a prospective randomized pilot study is only about 40 patients. But the fact was, was remarkable that they did a eight week lifestyle intervention. And they did a methylation clock, a Horvath style epigenetic methylation clock at the beginning at the end of the eight week lifestyle intervention. And they found that they found a three year reversal of the methylation age by that study. And of course, it raises a lot of questions. Reversing epigenetic clocks, we don’t know if that means that we’re reverses the age, it could be like gray hair, you know, if you do make your gray hair as a phenotypic marker of aging, gray hair, everybody agrees. But if you dye it black doesn’t necessarily mean you’re younger, you just that marker of age, because but but anyway. Yeah, maybe we’ll be seeing some epigenetic clocks more and more on as a as another tool in our toolbox for these things.

Unknown Speaker 31:51
I had no idea that they were coming up with desks that are under $100. But I think that’s definitely going to make it more accessible. And so more people will do it.

Robert Lufkin 32:00
Yeah, yeah. You I know, you use the concept of habit stacking with, with span health members. How, what does that? How does that help them? And can you explain that a little bit?

Unknown Speaker 32:15
Yeah, I think the idea is, you know, almost this approach of validated learning where you try an intervention in a very scientific experimental way, you use some of the data to validate that that change has worked for you. And so based on a specific goal, whether it’s reducing resting heart rate, increasing HLP, limiting your glucose variability throughout the day or the week, all these things can be measured and then put against your compared against your baseline. So for the two weeks, you’re doing that experiment, we can compare the data and actually show you tangibly, okay, you’ve got a 10% improvement on your because variability by doing this consistently for two weeks. The caveat that is obviously that a lot of other factors in your life, if you’re going on vacation, if anything else happens, we can see some of these data changing. So we’re trying to obviously know as much as possible, and try to decide whether we exclude data, increase the span of the time we take to conclude on the experiment, or change anything like this. But then once you found something that seems to be working and provide the right ratio of effort to benefits, we try to basically add it on the app and help people essentially find an event in their lifestyle that already exists. And it could be you know, someone who is already used to drinking a glass of water, or when they come back from work at 6pm. And then say, okay, every time you have a glass of water, we’ll think about the next habit that you want to implement at that time. And so I think that’s the general concept of habit stacking is finding different ways to stack habits on top of all the ones that already exists. And sometimes you reverse negative ones and replace them with positive ones. And then to add on top of that, and it feels like it is something that’s been validated so many times in scientific literature, but it’s a very effective way of increasing the adherence to something you know, is positive for you and doing it for as long as possible. And a good way also, when you drop off from, you know, going a month on the holidays and coming back and trying to get back to your routine to start picking things up again. One by one.

Robert Lufkin 34:36
Yeah, that’s that that’s a great tool. So as a patient coming in, oh, first of all, do you accept patients from all over the world or do they they need to be in a certain area? Are there any insurance issues or is everyone pays cash or who can who can come into your program?

Patrick Samy 34:59
Yes, to pretty much everyone today, as long as your goal is to improve your health, optimize it and then work on your longevity as well, I’d say we do less clinical stuff. So if you come in and have a very specific pathology kind of condition you want to deal with, when maybe not the best platform to deal with. That’s the main difference. We take people from all over the world, I would say, overall, we haven’t had many people join outside of the US to be honest, just a couple of people in Europe. But that’s pretty much it today. People pay out of pocket usually, for the majority of the users, what I would say is maybe 10 15% of our customers today, get a fitness allowance from their companies. They work at convenient tech companies like square Twitter, Instagram, Audible, and so they get a fitness allowance, that they can spend on pretty much anything since COVID. Obviously, used to be for gym memberships, and now most of the gyms have been closed. So the companies have said, we can now spend it on peloton or any digital alternative to a gym. And so they spend it on span as well, which, you know, I think is great for a lot of these, these employees of these companies. And so we’ve also seen people, one person specifically get a doctor’s note saying that they need some sort of fitness program to manage weight or so on. And in that case, they can get span, basically make it eligible for HSA or FSA accounts. Which again, you know, is a tax free allowance. So it’s, it’s quite a benefit for them.

Robert Lufkin 36:43
What are the most significant? Or what is the biggest impact on your patients? Do you think patients on your on your members? As far as being in this program? What are you seeing the most profound benefits for them?

Unknown Speaker 37:00
I would say interestingly, it’s sleep quality. We have seen, you know, a split, there’s about equal between people who work on diet, sleep and exercise, but that person each, and yet, if you look at the overall data of every single member we have, we always see an improvement. And so the average improvement for each user, based on their start date with the program is about, you know, 15% improvement within 20 days, and then that staircase pattern where they’ve got an improvement from making a first change, and he’s starting to smooth out and to be stable, and then move on to the next one, and then increase various markers of sleep quality in that way. To Reducing the amount of interruptions at night, increasing the amount of time they spend in recovery, sleep, deep sleep, REM sleep, and all these aspects. So sleep seems to be the number one benefit. That’s common to all the users.

Robert Lufkin 38:01
Yeah, it there’s only so much a company can do with with given resources. I’m wondering, you have such a such a deep treasure trove of data from your, from your members. Do you plan on publishing any of the results as in a scientific thing? And I realize it takes resources in time and you know, you need to focus on the mission. But do you? Do you see yourself doing that in the future?

Unknown Speaker 38:30
Definitely. Yeah. So you know, we’ve got a clinical background mostly in the team. And I think we believe that the best way to contribute overall and to make everyone advanced is to publish some of the learnings. And so right now, like you said, we’re still a small business and growing pretty quickly. So there’s a lot of operational realities to doing this kind of work. We are also raising money. So as soon as we close all of these things, I think we’ll be in a position to start planning and and deciding, you know, what is the first best study or trial that we can set up to to start making a difference? And we think I’d love to do that with clinical partners. I don’t think we should do this on our own necessarily. So I think it would be great to partner with a university that’s maybe already looking at wearables and technology that’s being used to try different aspects of health. And obviously, they’ve got their hypothesis and other thing to test. And so we’d love to be able to leverage both our experience and data but also the platform itself and the ability to look at that with them across time.

Robert Lufkin 39:39
Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s so exciting. To to get all that information out there. Well, now, in our last couple minutes here, what can you share about your personal lifestyle choices that you found to be most effective for you as far as exercise diet? Uh, sleep, and, and so on?

Unknown Speaker 40:06
That’s a good question. A lot of things. Number one on diet is probably not too many carbohydrates. Not necessarily, you know, I’m definitely not in the range of ketogenic diets or anything like that. But I feel like the current recommendation of eating about 45% of your diets and carbohydrates, that simply doesn’t work for me, it messes with my sleep, my blood sugar levels are unstable, and it’s unable to maintain that diet and make sure I have blood sugar levels that are not increasing every three months, if I repeat an AP once it is, so I just don’t feel it’s working for me. But lowering that, and when I do have carbohydrates, having them for lunch, rather than dinner seems to also mitigate the impact on sleep. And so that’s probably number one is knowing how to time these different things. And it makes sense, you know, it’s the blood sugar is going to be used throughout the activity in the afternoon makes more sense and having that dinner, and if you’re not going for a walk after dinner, and going straight to bed, not that we using that, actually. Second one is alcohol. And I’ve naturally as a result of focusing on my health, not more I stopped drinking, I wasn’t necessarily you know, drinking a lot, but I stopped drinking. completely honest, I’d say because of the impact and so on my heart rate variability, my resting heart rate when sleeping after a glass of wine, I’ve also learned how to time it. And I see that a glass of red wine is much better before a meal before dinner, then after or during dinner. And so yes, so many things like that are on alcohol, I think that needs to be discovered. And for the last one, maybe I’d say on on exercise, I think I’ve underestimated, you know, be playing one spot and under estimating the rest of the spectrum, strength training, resistance training, and probably also heart rates on to training and pushing myself to be able to get to that level of you know, 180 190 beats per minute. And in feel like I can still perform for a good amount of time. And during that, as part of specific workouts and trainings, I’ve been able to really apply that to the game and improving how I perform. Because, you know, I used to be, I started back after COVID and play 30 minutes. And for the last 15 minutes, I miss all the goals basically. And we’re just training in that way, making sure that I’m running, you know, I’m doing these programs where you’re running for two minutes, and then five minutes for two minutes and 33 minutes, and you work in between to lower and bring up your heart rate has pushed that much faster than in the past haven’t, you know, I’ve been able to recover much faster than they used to. So you feel like you’re looking at these things, these numbers when you’re training and trying to get back to have good overall fitness is really important.

Robert Lufkin 43:27
And how about supplements?

Patrick Samy 43:30
Supplements is vitamin D for me. It’s I mean, it’s evolved us but it’s something that even my family wasn’t necessarily obvious, but obviously you have a wrong dark skin. So it’s, it’s quite difficult for me to get the minimum required to maintain a good level amount of vitamin D. When I tested it the first time I was extremely low, I was under you know half and the lower part of the range. And I repeated it I tried the vitamin D supplements and it didn’t work and I repeated again and it didn’t work that that well until I started changing my lifestyle as well and then kept taking the vitamin D and for some reason, the absorption or the the impact of taking it especially in the winter when going out less has been much better by changing my lifestyle. So yeah, vitamin D plus lifestyle I would say in terms of supplements has been the one that helped me a lot haven’t been able to necessarily, you know, because that’s on a very long timeframe to correlate that with the impact but I do feel like in the winter if I’m not taking it I’m feeling you know, more under the weather than when I’m I am taking

Robert Lufkin 44:48
and then any any medications Metformin, or or rationalizing Yeah

Patrick Samy 44:57
No, not yet. I haven’t made up my mind. But I will definitely try these things. I think, you know, we’re getting to the all of these things are so new. I feel like in the last five years, the the understanding of these things completely change. And I feel like in next five years, we’ll probably have some sort of way to measure the impact of these things. And to this side, maybe not in the long term, but on the short term, you know, how do you personalize the intake of those, those medicines for longevity purposes, rather than the original purpose?

Robert Lufkin 45:34
Yeah, we’re, we’re going to be interviewing neuro bars alive. Dr. Barzilai is a strong proponent of metformin. And he’s the organizer of the prospective human longevity trial with metformin, the so called Team program that I think is starting this year. So we’ll know in in a few years, at least from that, from that controlled trial, at least if there’s an effect based on the choices they’ve made on the dosing the parameters and everything like that. So. But that’s interesting. Yeah. So yeah, it this, this has been great talking with you today, and it’s so wonderful the work you’re doing, helping patients make choices in their lifestyle that can improve their health and, and their and their longevity. It’s, it’s awesome.

Patrick Samy 46:28
Yeah, thanks for inviting me. And, you know, we’ve had this conversation in the past, but it feels like we are all on the same mission. And it’s really exciting to see how fast the space is, is moving and changing how many people are building and and, you know, even on the scientific side and the clinical side, how many, how many people are setting up new programs to do research to shine the light on things like you know, Metformin, and those anything, so it feels like this is going to move pretty quickly. In the next five and 10 years, we’re going to have a lot of new things to incorporate in our in our lifestyles.

Robert Lufkin 47:06
Yes, yes, an exciting time to be in this space. And I look forward to getting together with you again and revisiting this topic very soon. And so, again, thank you. Thanks so much, Patrick Jami for being on the on the show with us today. Have a great day, ya.

Unknown Speaker 47:25
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